Max Schmeling vs. these Heavyweights

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by GOAT Primo Carnera, Nov 18, 2018.


  1. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    That was way before he vecame relevant fighter though.
     
  2. Charlietf

    Charlietf Active Member Full Member

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    Did Ali,Foreman,Frazier,Holmes,Marciano,Tyson,Lewis, lose against a nobody before they were relevant fighters?
     
  3. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Nobody compares Schmeling to top 5 fighters ever.

    Ali almost lost to Cooper.
    Marciano almost lost to Lowry.
    Lewis actually lost early to nobody relevant.
    Gipsy Daniels wasn't bad, he was decent fighter with a lot of experience and Schmeling beat him once too.
     
  4. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Schmeling from Gipsy loss to the WWII break (1928-39) had a record of 18 wins, 4 losses and one draw. He was robbed in Sharkey loss and Uzcudun draw, he avenged Hamas loss in spectacular fashion. He lost to Baer and Louis (fight against Louis was past his prime).

    So, during Schmeling's prime he should have had a record of 20-3-0 while fightimg against the best fighters of the world. He was the only one who beat prime Louis and he had wins over prime Jack Sharkey. Sure, it's not close to Ali's record (or Louis for that matter) but he's definitely worth of top 20 considerarion. He's better fighter with better prime than Walcott for example. Probably better than Charles at HW. He has better resume than Jack Dempsey actually. I'm not even sure if Liston has better resume, although Liston lost less fights overall.

    H2H is always tricky, especially against giants of 21st century, but at his size he was really good and tough to beat. He has the power, decent chin, good skills and good defense. He's very good all-around fighter who usually adjusted his style well to his opponent (exception - Baer fight). I don't see a lot of fighters beating him at his best, certainly not within 15 lbs of difference.

    You can say that without Louis win he wouldn't be nearly as highly regarded but then you can say the same about Joe Frazier. Frazier without FOTC wouldn't have any win against prime great heavyweight and it's arguable that Ali was in worse state than Louis was against Schmeling. Frazier was destroyed by Foreman even more than Schmeling against Baer (he actually put up good fight until stoppage) and he lost the other two fights with past prime Ali.

    I'm not saying that Schmeling is as good or as great as Frazier, but I don't see people using similar criteria to him.
     
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  5. Charlietf

    Charlietf Active Member Full Member

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    Almost?nearly? It never happened
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I do ,neither make my top ten.
     
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  7. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He won the title in perhaps the weakest heavyweight era ever ,and won it sitting on the floor, clutching his nuts.
     
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  8. The Long Count

    The Long Count Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Schmeling defeated 4 hall of fame fighters Louis, Sharkey, Walker, Stribling.
    That’s impressive, three by KO.

    I believe many men listed by the OP
    Are too big for Schmeling. I definitely can see him beating Patterson, Walcott and maybe one other. But historically he rates above many of the fighters.

    Louis retired at 60-1 before his comeback. The only loss was a thorough dismantling by Schmeling. That is arguably the best win in the divsions history. The fact he also won the title - was robbed of it and denied rightful chance to reclaim it prevents a good legacy from being great.
    Schmeling beat many good fighters at their A game. Uzcudon, Hamas, Neusel, Risko, - tough men. But most would be cruisers today
     
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  9. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Cool, but you are exception of the rule in this case.
     
  10. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I think there were at least some moments when the division was in worse shape, but it's all subjective.
    He won it because Sharkey went low, Schmeling took no excuses and gave Sharkey rematch and outboxed him clearly. Not his fault that refs were blind that night.
     
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  11. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yeah and that's why he's top 15 instead of top 10.
     
  12. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Because of modern sports science, right? Tell me what journals the guys in your gym read.
     
  13. The Long Count

    The Long Count Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Schmeling’s power was exceptional for his size. Ring magazine rated him number 55 in its 100 greatest punchers of all time issue.

    take into account - Young Stribling has over 215 pro fights and was stopped only once in his career -
    Schmeling

    joe Louis has approximately 70 pro fights was stopped only twice in his career - once as a completely shot man in his final bout to Marciano and once in his physical prime to - you guessed it Schmeling

    Steve Hamas was stopped once in his career when he was the number 1 contender - took such frightful punishment he ended up with brain damage and was forced to retire - by Schmeling

    Johnny Risko stopped 3x in over 100 pro fights. Including his final bout. Of the other two stoppages - one belongs to- you guessed in Schmeling

    was the only man to stop Mickey Walker at heavy too and made it look easy

    the guy had timing and power. New how to use it too
     
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  14. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I'm going to take position of insufficient information. Maybe if I sat down and intently watched all available footage of Schemling in one stretch I'd have a stronger opinion.
     
  15. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Damn, Kevin got booted again? I've never seen him be more than mildly annoying, let alone "bannable". When has he ever said anything that wasn't perfectly within the bounds of spirited disagreement?
     
    GOAT Primo Carnera likes this.


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