Max Schmelling v Muhammad Ali 1973/Ken Norton v Joe Louis 1938

Neither Louis nor Ali were at their ideal best when facing Schmeling and Norton. Louis was still in the developmental phases of his career when he lost to Max, while Ali was in the post exhile phase of his career and not in the greatest of shape when he met Norton for the first time. Nevertheless, If Max and Ken were to trade places, I'd probably go with Ali by a decision or very late stoppage over Schmeling, and likely pick a young Louis to KO Ken.. Of course, there is no real way to know these things for sure, but that's what I'm sticking to.

 

Good post Mr Magoo.

 

The Joe Louis of the second Schmeling fight in June 1938 walks right thru Kenny Norton...

 

Thank you.

 

Louis KO Norton
Ali UD Schmelling

 

Swap Louis and Ali's stylistic foils and they both win, because they are no longer up against their stylistic foil.

 

I assume you've made the mistake assuming it was from the first fights rather than their second ones, because although Louis in the second Schmelling fight may not have been at his absolute peak, he was a machine in 38 and 39.

Theres no way in he'll Norton is lasting the distance with the Louis from the second Schmelling fight. I'll take Louis within 5. Ali from the second Norton fight would also comfortably take Schmelling from the second Louis fight I'm afraid. He was well past it by this stage and just wouldn't have what it takes to impose his style on Ali. Ali by lopsided decision.

Had you done it from the first fights then I think Schmelling has a better chance but wouldn't be able to pull off the win. Schmelling just wouldn't be active enough for Ali, who would dance and impede the counterpunching of Schmelling whilst Max follows him around the ring all night. Ali would be the clear winner on the cards, but I think it woulbestial be competitive. In the other matchup, I still think Louis bangs Norton fairly early again. Kenny just couldn't handle ATG punchers/punching power.

 

Do you think Schmelling was that bad stylistically for Louis, or that he was just underdeveloped in the first fight? I mean it's certainly a bit of both either way you look at it, but do you weigh more importance of Schmellings victory on the stylistic matchup, as apposed to coming up against a green Louis?

 

But Louis wasn't green though... not at his peak but I dont think its fair to max to call louis green

 

Louis was certainly not green and an argument can be made that the Schmeling 1936 fight did fall within Louis's peak years - Louis himself said that the Max Baer Sep' '35 was his finest performance. Having said that Schmeling 1 fell within Louis' peak years, Louis did take his foot off the gas preparation wise by the time the 1st Schmeling fight came around; he was enjoying newly married life too much and spent much of his time leading up to the fight bed-hopping, partying and playing golf.

I believe that Joe was definitely under-prepared for the first fight. I believe if he had prepared properly for the first Schmeling fight, Max would have gone the same way as the previos world champs Louis had fought at that point; Carnera & Baer,

 

I think it was a three way combination of:

Louis being a bit green

Louis taking his eye off the ball

Schmeling being a stlistic foil

 

Ali by decision
Louis by murder in the 2nd or 3rd..