Maybe Rubin Hurricane Carter isn't as innocent as believed

That is your interpretation. The evidence was NEVER found to be planted. The vehicle was searched at the scene the NIGHT of the shooting and no shell casings were found. It was then taken to impound where it was searched again and shell casings matching the calibre of weapons used in the killing were found under some boxing equipment. The only controversy is that they were not date stamped into evidence until five days later.

The ammunition itself did not match casings found at the scene but what difference does that make? I have lots of different makes of ammo for my guns in the same calibre. Anyone who owns guns would find this common and Carter was a gun nut.

So most of what you describe is not true in relation to the ammo. Had the ammo been found to have been planted it wouldnt have been used in trial, it was, and it would have been used to free Carter, it wasnt.

You are also lying or mistaken about the witness testimony, The main witness absolutely identified Artis and produced a drawing of him which matched his appearance that night. She couldnt identify Carter but considering the entire massacre took just over a minute, and Artis had walked up to her, shot her, and then stood over her shooting her, thats not surprising. The other witness could only identify that it was two black men but considering he got shot in the head immediately upon the gunmen entering thats surprising. But nice way to dodge the fact that Carter got caught witness tampering.

So, no, you are not 100% accurate. In fact, despite claims otherwise, most of your “facts” come straight from books sympathetic to Carter which dont tell the full story.

The other part of this that apologists always seem to ignore is that to believe that the police framed Carter and Artis you would have to believe that they just decided for no reason to frame two innocent black men while allowing two guilty black men who had just shot four white people to roam free and potentially do the same thing again. That beggars belief.

I could keep pointing where you have either lied or mischaracterized points in this case but Im not enterestee in sparring with someone who either doesnt know the basic facts of the case or isnt honest about them.

 

Not a single witness on first interview (not later changed/coerced testimony) placed Carter nor anyone fitting his description at the scene. You correctly state that the female witness ID’d Artis but not Carter, so what that has to do with Carter’s guilt I have no idea.

If you know the case at all, I’m clearly talking about Alfred Bello and Arthur Bradley — two crooks who were casing/robbing a nearby warehouse ostensibly. Bello claimed to discover the bodies when he entered the bar buy cigarettes. Except that it turned out he was in the bar leading up to the shooting and after, when he cleaned out the cash register. So he robbed the place, yet wasn’t even considered a suspect? Instead, police used that to get him to change his story to place Carter and Artis there (also offering Bello $10K in reward money — this was established to be absolute fact in the course of this case, but not immediately because it wasn’t revealed to defense attorneys as it by law should have been, and Bello absolutely lied on the stand, which the DA knew but did not report as was his duty (by law) as an officer of the court.

The shell casings weren’t there and then they were. There’s a report of what was discovered in the initial search and they are not on it. Then they searched five days later and ‘found’ them. Then they ‘found’ a second report (allegedly produced 75 minutes after the murder, during which time Carter and Artis are being questioned in the first or second hour of their 17-hour grilling and yet police didn’t detain them, didn’t ask them about it? That’s bull**** and you surely have to know any police interrogation of suspects in a gun murder would bring that and arrest them if such evidence was in hand … it wasn’t because it was planted.

No, the police were never charged with planting evidence. Crooked cops generally don’t arrest each other and the crooked prosecutor (who elicited and did not report perjured testimony, so we know he’s crooked) wasn’t going to pursue that because there goes his case. The fact that you just say ‘well if the police didn’t charge themselves with planting evidence, it must not have happened.’

So Carter is a gun nut. Yeah, we have a Second Amendment — you yourself own guns. Does that make you guilty of anything. How about ballistics matching shells allegedly found in Carter’s rental card to the guns used in the killings? Um, police never recovered the murder weapons. So your link between Carter and the murder weapons is ‘he owned guns’ but no gun belonging to or associated with Rubin Carter was ever entered into evidence so there is literally no link. Policemen owned guns … can we link them to the murders?

FACT you cannot dispute: Carter’s convictions for this crime were tossed out because of the absolute crookedness of how the case was handled. This wasn’t a technicality he got off on, like forgetting to have an officer sign a form thus making real evidence in admissible — this was appeals court judges unanimously saying ‘this cannot stand because this conviction is so absolutely crooked.’ Period.

Appeals court judges cannot charge crooked police with planting evidence, but they can rule that the evidence and testimony presented are tainted by police actions. That’s what happened. So yes the police are crooked, as was the prosecutor.

 

Yeah, this is boxing … not country club golf or polo played by the upper crust.

Saying ‘boxer is shady’ is dog-bites-man. Saying boxer murdered someone even though there’s no evidence that was not completely tainted pointing his way is a different kettle of fish.

 

Yep the case is closed and the final verdict was that (a) the conviction was unlawful, thus reversed; and (b) the state admitted it did not have evidence to try him again (since so much of it was revealed to be crooked/lies/etc. and would not have been usable in another trial). The judge banged a gavel and said ‘they did you wrong, conviction vacated’ and the state said ‘we couldn't prove he did it even if we tried him again because our evidence is tainted and our chief witness has no credibility (because he was shown to lie on the stand in the previous trial), so we’re not going to even attempt it.’

Also, Bobby Dylan is way overrated as a musician. He is not overrated as being a seminal voice of his time and movement. (Also, the whole motorcycle crash thing was just to get him out of contracted tour dates because he was so drugged up at the time that he couldn’t function, but that’s another kettle of fish.)

 

Actually the state didnt follow up prosecuting him a THIRD time because almost two decades after the events most of the main witnesses in the case had died and it was decided that rather than pursue a case that was now much more difficult to prosecute they decided to save the tax payers money and hope that having spent more than half of his life in prison for the various crimes he committed was enough. It wasnt considering he continued being a violent alcoholic.

And yes, Carter's conviction was thrown out on a procedural technicality that was viewed by many jurists as a flawed ruling by Sarokin. It was based on two parts: 1. Was the lack of timely disclosure around the reward money and 2. The supposedly flawed racial revenge motive. None of the testimony was thrown out. None of the evidence was thrown out. Carter was never exonerated and could have been retried, which is why he never set foot anywhere near New Jersey again and why he spent most of the rest of his life outside of the USA. Sarokin trying to say the racial revenge motive was improper is ridiculous considering Carter himself used this as the motive for his malice in his book the 13th round, Carter said of himself: “I wanted to be the Administrator of Justice, the Revealer of Truth, the Inflictor of all Retribution.” Artis himself testified on the stand that while he waited for Carter that night drinking in bar two black men walked by him talking about wanting to kill white people as revenge for the recent murder of a black bartender, the event that started the racial revenge theory in the first place.

Just another example of you bending the facts to suit your argument.

Again, we can argue about how Artis was positively identified by two witnesses. We can argue about the ammunition found in Carter's car. A car which was positively identified as having been seen fleeing the scene. A unique looking car with unique license plates. We can discuss Carter being found hiding under a blanket in the back seat when pulled over immediately after having been spotted speeding away from the direction of the murders. We can argue about how Carter was then let go specifically because he was recognized (strange if you are trying to frame him) and only picked up later that evening after it was found that his car, which was seen speeding from the direction of the murders, matched the vehicle driven by the murderers. We can argue about Carter and Artis taking lie detector tests which showed that they were involved in the shootings and knew more than they were telling investigators. We can discuss their ever changing stories. We can discuss Carter's witness tampering. His violent past and future. We can discuss how the eye witness drawing exactly matched what Artis was described as wearing just before the killings. And we can even discuss how you above seem to agree that Artis being identified as by witness has nothing to do with Carter's guilt despite Artis having been pulled over driving Carters car immediately after the killings and coming from the direction of the killings with Carter hiding in the back seat. But I really see no point if you are going to just make it up as you go along. As I said above, you are either lying or dont know the case as well as you pretend. Either way its pointless to discuss.

Carter was a scumbag. Thats not really even debatable. The guy spent over 26 years of his life in various correctional facilities due to his violent nature. He would have spent a lot more but in several cases either charges were dropped or never pressed and in one instance he escaped from a juvenile detention facility before completing his sentence. Some people want to believe that numerous law enforcement officials just decided to railroad this scumbag because he was black while ignoring the actual black murderers, and all of them were willing to lie and willing to let the real black murderers walk free while they themselves broke the law, exhibited no moral compass, and put other lives and their own careers in danger. I dont buy it. The story that Carter finally settled on for why he was supposedly targeted, that he was a black civil rights firebrand that "The Man" wanted to put away is ludicrous. Telling the Saturday Evening Post that you want to kill white cops doesnt make you a civil rights icon and there would be much easier ways to put Carter away, given his penchant for violence and his alcoholism, than to frame him for shooting four white people, killing three, and allowing the real killers to walk free. Carter was never a civil rights icon, he cared for nobody but himself, and by the time of the murders he was an angry has-been that nobody cared about except the drunks and young wanna-bes like Artis that he spent all night bar hopping with.

You are entitled to your OPINION but you arent entitled to alter the facts to suit that opinion.