Mayweather is the LINEAR Welterweight champion

I wasn't proving a point, you asked for same the names. the two most recogniseable are wba and wbc. If you wanna look for the magazine rankings which might be better for you go ahead and search them :good

 

I'm not a big fan of inactivity

 

How exactly does it "stand to reason" since when have cbz been the authority on the top 2 rankings? the answer is never.

This 1 v 2 bull**** is something you made up in your head.

Where Ray Robinson and tommy bell the top 2 ranked? helllll no.

 

Against Baldomir!!!!

Nuff said.

I don't care if Baldomir is the ultimate champion or whatever, you could even call him GOAT, it is still against Baldomir.


Against Baldomir........... put that in your ****ing heads. Because there must be something wrong being considered something if you gained it against Baldomir - lost 9 against bums, then won somemore against bums before facing Gayweather. Yep, Judah was counted.

 

According to CBZ, the lineal champ traces as thus

Paddy Duffy (1888-1890; died 7/10/1890, not 7/19/1890)
"Mysterious" Billy Smith (1892-1894)
Tommy Ryan (1894-1898, vacates title)
"Mysterious" Billy Smith (1898-1900)
William "Matty" Matthews(1900)
Eddie Connolly (1900)
James "Rube" Ferns (1900)
William "Matty" Matthews (1900-1901)
James "Rube" Ferns (1901)
Joe Walcott (1901-1904)
Dixie Kid (1904, outgrows division)
Billy "Honey" Mellody (1906-1907)
Mike "Twin" Sullivan (1907-1908, vacates title)

1908-1914 -- A mad scramble for the welterweight title followed Sullivan's reign. Among the claimants were Frank Mantell, Harry Lewis, Jimmy Gardner, Jimmy Clabby, Perry "Kid" Graves and future champs Jack Britton and Ted "Kid" Lewis.

Waldemar Holberg (1914)
Tom McCormick (1914)
Matt Wells (1914-1915)
Mike Glover (1915)
Jack Britton (1915)
Ted "Kid" Lewis (1915-1916)
Jack Britton (1916-1917)
Ted "Kid' Lewis (1917-1919)
Jack Britton (1919-1922)
Mickey Walker (1922-1926)
Pete Latzo (1926-1927)
Joe Dundee (1927-1929)
Jackie Fields (1929-1930)
"Young" Jack Thompson (1930)
Tommy Freeman (1930-1931)
"Young" Jack Thompson (1931)
Lou Brouillard (1931-1932)
Jackie Fields (1932-1933)
Young Corbett III (1933)
Jimmy McLarnin (1933-1934)
Barney Ross (1934)
Jimmy McLarnin (1934-1935)
Barney Ross (1935-1938)
Henry Armstrong (1938-1940)
Fritzie Zivic (1940-1941)
Freddie "Red" Cochrane (1941-1946)
Marty Servo (1946, vacates title)
"Sugar" Ray Robinson (1946; vacates crown 1950)
Kid Gavilan (1951-1954)
Johnny Saxton (1954-1955)
Tony DeMarco (1955)
Carmen Basilio (1955-1956)
Johnny Saxton (1956)
Carmen Basilio (1956-1957, relinquishes crown)
Virgil Akins (1958)
Don Jordan (1958-1960)
Benny "Kid" Paret (1960-1961)
Emile Griffith (1961)
Benny "Kid" Paret (1961-1962)
Emile Griffith (1962-1963)
Luis Manuel Rodriguez (1963)
Emile Griffith (1963-1966, vacates title)
Curtis Cokes (1966-1969)
Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles (1969-1970)
Billy Backus (1970-1971)
Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles (1971-1975)
John H. Stracey(1975-1976)
Carlos Palomino (1976-1979)
Wilfred Benitez(1979)
"Sugar" Ray Leonard(1979-1980)
Roberto Duran (1980)
"Sugar" Ray Leonard (1980-1982, vacated title )
Donald Curry (1985-1986)
Lloyd Honeyghan (1986-1987)
Jorge Vaca (1987-1988)
Lloyd Honeyghan (1988-1989)
Marlon Starling (1989-1990)
Maurice Blocker (1990-1991)
Simon Brown (1991)
James "Buddy" McGirt (1991-1993)
Pernell Whitaker (1993-1997)
Oscar De La Hoya (1997-1999)
Felix Trinidad, Jr. (1999-2000, vacates title)
"Sugar" Shane Mosley (2000-2002)
Vernon Forrest (2002-2003)
Ricardo Mayorga (2003)
Cory Spinks (2003-2004)
"Sugar" Shane Mosley (2009 to date)



The list isn't up to date and is poorly maintained IMO. Here are some thoughts I have about it (positive and negative). I won't even go into nws fights and "ctachweight" losses suffered by champions a pound over the limit.

1) I think Ryan had a better claim than mysterious from the offset (he got to needham first).

2) dixie kids claim is ludicrous as he paid for and bought the referee for the walcott fight (in reality he was knocked out)

3) there is no recognition for gans victories over twin sullivan (incidentally gans had a very closely fought draw with walcott)

4) I have no idea why they recognised Holberg as the champ.

5) Cochrane's reign is a complete and utter joke; the less said about it the better.

6) Robinson is rightly recognised for beating Tommy Bell (fringe contender at best) as soon as servo retired)

7) Curry is rightly recognised for unifying all the belts for the first time since Leonard retired.

8) I also agree they were right to recognise the winner of oscar and shane's fight in light of the tito robbery.

9) they don't recognise judah for beating spinks.

10) they rightly recognise shane as champ after beating margo, but nor margo as champ after beating cotto.

 

I personally see it more like this:

Paddy Duffy: (october)1888-(december)1889 [goes inactive so needham usurps claim]
Danny Needham: (december)1889-(february)1891 [quits against tommy ryan]
Tommy Ryan: (february)1889-(march)1897 [vacates titles to compete at mw]
George Green: (march)1897-(august)1897 [knocks out smith to take top spot before losing to barbados]
Barbados Joe Walcott: (august)1897-(december)1898 [loses to billy smith]
Billy Smith: (december)1898-(april)1900 [suffers no losses in the division until matty beats him]
Matty Matthews: (april)1900-(june)1900 [loses to eddie]
Eddie Connoly: (june)1900-(august)1900 [loses to ferns]
James Fearns: (august)1900-(october)1900 [loses to matthews]
Matty Matthews: (october)1900-(may)1901 [knocked out by ferns]
James Fearns: (may)1901-(december)1901 [knocked out by the barbados demon]
Barbados Joe Walcott: (december)1901-(june)1904 [only legit losses are to mw's and hw's until yp kos him]
Young Peter Jackson: (june)1904-(feb)1905 [knocks out barbados joe but then moves up in weight]
Sam Langford: (feb)1905-(jan)1906 [with ypj and jw out of the division, sam takes crown vs holly before moving up to hw]
Joe Gans: (jan)1906-(july)1906 [beats twin sullivan for crown but claim usurped when barbados returns]
Barbados Joe Walcott: (july)1906-(october)1906 [loses to honey]
Honey Melody: (october)1906-(april)1907 [loses to twin]
Mike Sullivan: (april)1907-(december)1908 [relinquishes his title]
Willie Lewis: (december)1908-(february)1910 [gets a gift draw against harry lewis]
Harry Lewis (february)1910-(january)1911 [only losses are to mw's until he relinquishes his crown]
Jimmy Clabby: (jan)1911-(may)1912 [takes claim as the only consistent ww until packey usurps it against erne]
Packey McFarland: (may)1912-(jan)1914 [beats all comers from lw and ww before retiring his claim]
Jack Britton: (jan)1914-(august)1915 [beats glover in jan and doesn't lose a ww fight until ted kid]
Ted Kid Lewis: (august)1915-(november)1915 [loses to glover around the ww limit]
Mike Glover: (november)1915-(april)1916 [claim usurped when britton outclasses ted kid]
Jack Britton: (april)1916-(may)1917 [loses to ted kid]
Ted Kid Lewis: (may)1917-(march)1918 [only meaningful loss is to bartfield (nws) which he avenged a week later]
Jack Britton: (march)1918-(june)1918 [loses to former conqueror benny leonard]
Benny Leonard: (june)1918-(march)1919 [claim usurped when britton knocks out ted kid]
Jack Britton: (march)1919-(november)1922 [only losses are to mw's until mickey wrestles the title from him]
Mickey Walker: (november)1922-(may)1926 [loses to former victim latzo]
Pete Lazto: (may)1926-(feb)1927 [battered by ww contender clyde hull]
Clyde Hull: (feb)1927-(march)1927 [loses very next fight to billy]
Billy Leonard: (march)1927-(june)1927 [claim usurped by dundee]
Joe Dundee: (june)1927-(september)1927 [beaten by idrisiano]
Johnny Indrisano: (september)1927-(november)1927 [knocked out by hull]
Clyde Hull: (november)1927-(feb)1928 [knocked out by dundee]
Joe Dundee: (feb)1928-(august)1928 [blitzed by young jack]
Young Jack Thompson: (august)1928-(october)1928 [beaten by fields]
Jackie Fields: (october)1928-(feb)1930 [beaten by young corbett 3]
Young Corbett III: (feb)1930-(may)1931 [claim usurped when mclarnin avenges defeat]
Jimmy McLarnin: (may)1931-(august)1932 [loses to brouillard]
Lou Brouillard: (august)1932-(october)1932 [loses to callahan whilst jimmy batters benny]
Jimmy McLarnin: (october)1932-(may)1934 [loses to barney]
Barney Ross: (may)1934-(september)1934 [loses rmeatch to jimmy]
Jimmy McLarnin: (september)1934-(may)1935 [loses rubber to barney]
Barney Ross: (may)1935-(may)1938 [loses to armstrong]
Henry Armstrong: (may)1938-(jan)1940 [claim usurped by cocoa kid]
Cocoa Kid: (jan)1940-(ocotber)1940 [beats williams to usurp henry's claim before zivic usurps claim by beating henry]
Fritzie Zivic: (october)1940-(april)1941 [loses to Kaplan]
Mike Kaplan: (april)1941-(september)1941 [claim usurped by cocoa when kaplan loses to montgomery]
Cocoa Kid: (september)1941-(jan)1942 [loses to holman williams]
Holman Williams: (jan)1942-(feb)1942 [loses to burley]
Charley Burley: (feb)1942-(march)1942 [claim usurped when he leaves division and cocoa batters williams]
Cocoa Kid: (march)1942-(december)1942 [beats williams to take top spot, loses to wilson whilst ray beats janazzo]
Ray Robinson: (december)1942-(november)1950 [vacates belt to compete at mw]
Kid Gavilan: (november)1950-(october)1954 [takes top spot by beating graham and keeps it until loss to saxton]
Johnny Saxton: (october)1954-(feb)1955 [loses to delaney on points]
Ronnie Delaney: (feb)1955-(april)1955 [claim usurped when de marco stops saxton]
Tony De Marco: (april)1955-(june)1955 [loses to basilio]
Carmen Basilio: (june)1955-(march)1956 [loses to saxton]
Johnny Saxton: (march)1956-(september)1956 [loses to basilio]
Carmen Basilio: (september)1956-(october)1957 [vacates title to move up to mw]
Virgil Akins: (october)1957-(september)1958 [loses to Flanagan]
Del Flanagan: (september)1958-(april)1959 [vacates claim to move up to mw]
Don Jordan: (april)1958-(may)1960 [takes top spot in rematch vs akins but then loses to candy]
Candy McFarland: (may)1960-(december)1960 [goes inactive so paret usurps claim]
Benny Paret: (december)1960-(april)1961 [loses to griffith]
Emile Griffith: (april)1961-(march)1963 [robbery loss to paret but genuine loss to rodriguez]
Luis Rodriguez: (march)1963-(june)1964 [loses 4th fight to griffith]
Emile Griffith: (june)1964-(july)1966 [vacates title to move up to mw]
Curtis Cokes: (july)1966-(april)1969 [takes top spot by stopping rodriguez, loses to jose napoles]
Jose Napoles: (april)1969-(december)1970 [stopped on cuts to backus]
Billy Backus: (december)1970-(june)1971 [loses rematch to jose]
Jose Napoles: (june)1971-(december)1975 [loses war to stracey]
John Stracey: (december)1975-(june)1976 [loses to palomino]
Carlos Palomino: (june)1976-(september)1978 [goes inactive whilst pipino smashes ranzany]
Nelson Cuevas: (september)1978-(january)1979 [claim usurped when benitez beats palomino]
Wilfred Benitez: (january)1979-(november)1979 [stopped by sugar ray]
Ray Leonard: (november)1979-(june)1980 [loses to roberto in montreal]
Roberto Duran: (june)1980-(november)1980 [loses rematch to ray whilst tommy is smashing everyone]
Tommy Hearns: (november)1980-(september)1981 [usurps claim after dominant knockouts but loses to ray]
Ray Leonard: (september)1981-(july)1982 [vacates belts]
Milton McCrory: (july)1982-(feb)1984 [takes top spot by beating stafford but claim usurped when curry unifies]
Don Curry: (feb)1984-(september)1986 [usurps claim but is stopped in great upset by lloyd]
Lloyd Honeyghan: (september)1986-(october)1987 [loses td to vaca]
Jorge Vaca: (october)1987-(march)1988 [loses rematch to lloyd]
Lloyd Hoeyghan: (march)1988-(feb)1989 [stopped by moochy]
Marlon Starling: (feb)1989-(august)1990 [marlon loses to blocker]
Maurice Blocker: (august)1990-(march)1991 [stopped by brown]
Simon Brown: (march)1991-(november)1991 [loses to buddy]
James McGirt: (november)1991-(march)1993 [loses to sweet pea]
Pernell Whittaker: (march)1993-(december)1994 [goes inactive after beating buddy whilst felix smashes carr]
Felix Trinidad: (december)1994-(september)1996 [claim usurped when pea beats rivera in rematch]
Pernell Whittaker: (september)1996-(september)1997 [beats oscar then goes inactive]
Oscar De La Hoya: (september)1997-(feb)1999 [struggles with ike whilst tito batters pea]
Felix Trinidad: (feb)1999-(september)1999 [gets a gift against oscar]
Oscar De La Hoya: (september)1999-(june)2000 [loses to mosley]
Shane Mosley: (june)2000-(jan)2002 [dominated by vernon]
Vernon Forrest: (jan)2002-(jan)2003 [battered by ricardo]
Ricardo Mayorga: (jan)2003-(december)2003 [barely loses to spinks]
Corey Spinks: (december)2003-(feb)2005 [stopped by zab]
Zab Judah: (feb)2005-(jan)2006 [loses to carlos claim usurped by margo]
Antonio Margarito: (jan)2006-(november) [fails to get big fight whilst floyd beats carlos]
Floyd Mayweather: (november)2006-(april)2008 [retires whilst cotto(coming off wins over judah and mosley) batters gomez]
Miguel Cotto: (april)2008-(july)2008 [battered by margarito]
Antonio Margarito: (july)2008-(jan)2009 [smashed by sugar shane]
Shane Mosley: (jan)2009-(may)2010 [goes inactive but keeps his spot because he tries making fight with pacman and berto struggles.]
Floyd Mayweather: (may)2010-(november)2010 [retires again so pac takes top spot by default]
Manny Pacquiao: (november)2010-(november)2011 [in floyd's absence he dominates up until his struggle with former floyd victim jmm]
Floyd Mayweather: (november)2011-Present [best around for now]

 

ok:thumbsup

 

That second list was compiled by myself with some notes to explain each decision. I'm personally of the belief that all these titles muddy the water's from a fans perspective.

I only care about who I think is the best at any given point; I've gone from the day duffy first claimed the title right up until the day pac struggled with jmm.

I'm not really understanding why people insist upon having vacant titles, if someone's number 1, they're number 1 whether it's the wgbc, wba, wbo, ibf, ring, lineal, coloured, nba, nysac or any other belt around their waists.

The man makes the belt for me and not the other way round.

I know it isn't exactly contemporary thinking but the disgrace of the nws era and then the catchweight losses and then the duration era, lineage gets really ****ed up at times.

 

Found this clip from an article on t'internet.

Even though Shane Mosley was willing to meet Manny Pacquiao at the lower catch weight of 140 compared to Miguel Cotto at 145, Pacquiao chose to fight Cotto instead. Mosley was willing to take a smaller revenue split as well, yet Pacquiao still chose to fight Cotto. So based on that, did Pacquiao avoid fighting Mosley for what many people perceive to be the easier fight against Cotto?

Inlight of this, can shane really be blamed for going inactive? I think not.

 

The question is as stupid as your's is...

 

And obviously you're not a big fan of common sense either...

 

no I'm asking why should the lineal belt be elevated above the coloured, white, nba, nyasc, wbc, wba, ibf, wbo, ring etc?

Surely what's of more value is the man wearing the belt than the belt itself?

which belt is worth more in 1920's, the lineal belt held by levinsky or the american lhw belt held by greb and tunney?

in the late 1910's which belt is worth more, the world title being taken into deep freeze by big jess, or the couloured title being actively competed over by harry wills.

For me the answer is the belt with the better man wearing it.

 

nah I just don't like champs sitting on their belts. In that particular instance though, mosley negotiated fights with both berto and pacman but it was not his fault when both fights broke down. As such it aint right holding it against him because context is important.

 

Hey Genius, the de la Hoya Mosley I fight is universally recognized as being a contest for the legit 147lb title. Get a clue. CBZ is just as credible - if not more - than your precious alphabet sanctioning mobs.

And?

WTF does that have to do with the topic of discussion @ hand? Why do you keep pulling Red Herrings out of your ass?

 

:good