He's right, but damn near any good BJJ blue belt would take down and submit even world class boxers, so what does that prove? MMA is a different sport than boxing, even the way you strike with your hands is different. You don't duck punches in MMA or you get your face kneed off. You don't throw a lot of jabs because one hard right hand counter over the top can finish you. Put on earmuffs and you'll get your leg kicked off or just get knocked out because you can't block punches nearly as well without the big gloves. It's not like this information isn't available. How is it you don't know these basic facts, but you still consider yourself such an expert that you have to make a thread about it?
UFC fighters have united into one school of fighting. it is no longer MIXED martial arts. Gone were the days of brazilian jiujitsu vs wrestling, tae kwon do vs. muay thai, etc. THe philosophies involved in ancient martial arts have been suppressed and what we have now is street fighting in a cage. So the fighters try to focus 40% on skill and 60% on bodybuilding. 3minutes 3 rounds, sometimes it's over in a flash.
This is such idiotic bull**** it's unbelievable. It's nothing like this whatsoever. You have Wrestlers, BJJ practioners, Karate, Standup fighters, Judo, Sambo, Kickboxers and Muay Thai fighters. It's just become more advanced and that BJJ and Wrestling clearly holds an advantage and guys cross train learning all aspects, because the sport evolves. It's not street fighting in a cage whatsoever. Try watching Nick Diaz vs. Diego Sanchez. Try watching Anderson Silva vs. Dan Henderson. Try watching any fight where it's not two Brawler based competitors or a guy who holds a serious advantage over the other in terms of skill (which isn't that often). You're being a fool, it's not even 3 minutes, it's 5 minutes. And sometimes boxing is over in a flash, but with MMA you don't have a knockdown rule (personally, I think you should) so when a guy is hurt, it's usually over. It's this kind of idiotic comment that makes boxing fans so stubborn and unable to enjoy other things. Nobody ever says you have to pick one or the other. You don't like MMA, that's fine. But don't talk a load of old **** about it being 60% bodybuilding when it's clearly not. BJ Penn and Fedor are two of the greatest of all time, look their physiques up and learn a little. You never know, you might be more open to trying something. Misread, apologies. Fighters focus 60% on bodybuilding? I don't understand. A lot of fighters look to evolve their game and learn stuff. You'll almost always see an MMA fighter improve, very few are focusing on bodybuilding. It's about getting in shape and having a diet that allows you to fight at your full potential. A fighter who focuses on his physique instead of pushing himself will get nowhere.
Trust me I have been watching MMA since the Pride days in Japan. Attended UFC 118 in Boston which was one of the worst ones must I say. The only excitement came from an undercard and the intro of Toney and Randy. Nate Diaz just boxing the **** out of his opponent. The rest of the night the boos were heard all night long. Things got so boring two fights in the crowd grab more attention than the Penn/Edgar as they were fighting. Many seem out of shape. As said only a few posses true skills, but no way will Anderson defeat a boxer like RJJ even as we speak. Fedor had my respect, but now im wondering if the weak PED testing in Japan made fighters like him and Wanderlei Sylva such monsters. Machida smart fighter though hated by many because of his style. Come on dude I know way more than you think.
I really don't think Fedor has any history with PEDs. Wanderlei neither, though you never know. I just took issue with Anderson Silva taking a limb and bending it if in a street fight with Jones Jr. People think because they're skilled in different things he'd get the **** beaten out of him in real life. Personally, I wouldn't look into a street fight anyway, but a boxer is way overrated when it comes to combat, especially when it's close quarters. Anderson could quite easily pull him into a clinch of some sort or if the fight spilled onto the floor, hurt him there. Boxing is about distance, range, angles and timing, none of which would be relevant in an actual fight. It comes back to the basicness of a simple scuffle. A punch, a knee, anything. Roy's learnt the art of how to throw a punch, Anderson's learnt the art of everything else, and even still he's not ******ed with his hands. I can understand why people don't find MMA interesting. I used to hate when it went to the mat too, there are some stinkers but the same can be said for boxing. I bet a lot of people (myself included) found Bradley/Alexander boring but I bet there was some that enjoyed it and found it fascinating, there's fights like that in the UFC for me at least 50% of the time. The other 25% will be awesome, the other 25% will be not entertaining. I enjoy it a lot, but I'm not willing to throw my hat into the pile of a boxer being this dominant fighter who could wipe his arse with an MMA one on his feet 10/10 times. In boxing, a boxer obviously holds the advantage, in MMA, the MMA fighter does. On the street, anything goes. I'm in the mind that just because a fight is standing in an MMA fight does not mean the MMA fighter cannot win. He's at a disadvantage, sure, but you'd be silly to think James Toney couldn't be took out by a Rampage or a Rashad Evans. Would they try to stand with him? Probably not, definitely not the latter, but I don't think it's ridiculous to think they could win.
Never said he was or Sylva, but the rignt to question esp. since Japan has weak PED testing. They both dominated in Pride and once in they enter the states you know the rest. You my friend are lost when said boxing is overrated when it comes to combat. This is what seperates boxing from MMA, a boxer takes his skills to another level, practices them for years and years, until he tries to master that skill. He is not in a hurry, hes there in that gym at the age of 5. Hes not rushing from area to area, in which most MMA dudes are doing. They try to learn this and that and really they are not developing any of those skills, but simply learning them oppose to mastering them. Thats why many of them at this moment are hiring boxing trainers, they even lack a simple jab, here we are talking about combat this and that, and most are being shown how to throw a proper jab, planting their feet, using head movement. Something that should be learn in any combat sport. From a simple jump rope to shadow boxing teaches a million things that many areas in MMA wouldn't be able to compare. Discipline, respect, patience, mastering, movement, speed, power, ring generalship, intelligence, gameplan, the list goes on....
Wanderlei, like Rua, is a more dirty fighter. They like to use soccer kicks, something that isn't able to be used in the UFC, plus Wanderlei has been in a lot of wars, not to mention they fought in rings instead of cages, that's got to have some effect. Fedor hasn't had issues when he's came to the states, Fedor has been in a lot of wars too and came through them all. With Werdum, he got caught, that's a seperate issue altogether, I think you're posting bad examples. A better one would be Cro Cop. Wanderlei you can't expect to last at the elite level for long with the way he fights. Besides, it wasn't like he came to the states then started getting knocked out like Cro Cop did, he already got KO'd bigtime against Henderson, Belfort and Cro Cop, Belfort being a much earlier one. Both I don't believe are issues with PEDs, but like you say, you never know. It's a cynical age, I'd just prefer not to be skeptic about every fighter who's had a rough time. It's a very demanding sport and tough to remain top dog. And I don't doubt everything you said about boxing. However, I'm just saying being under MMA rules is a lot different to being in a boxing ring. outside of leg kicks ****ing a dude up and the ground and clinch games, I don't think boxers are the ultimate when it comes to stand up fighting. I don't mean there's another style that is better than boxing for your feet, I just think it's all a big chess game and there's guys who have the necessary skills on their feet to beat boxers, not many but still. Defense, timing and range are all different. Sometimes it takes a boxer a while to get into their gameplan, take Mayweather for example. That guy needs 3 rounds to configure and get what's up and then he's got you beat, how would a guy like that be expected to excel in a MMA stand up battle because he's got those skills? You can get a guy's timing down but nothing can upset your rhythm more than a leg kick. A guy like Leben is wild and a stand up fighter, but he has an iron chin. Do I think Leben would be able to throw bombs and take out a boxer? Absolutely. Do I think it's likely to happen? Of course not. Like you say, most boxers have trained all their life, for some it's all they know. A fighter like Leben wouldn't be hard to beat, but I think if you put someone in there like Thiago Alves or Jose Aldo, Dominick Cruz, Cain Velasquez, anything with a really strong stand up game that isn't limited to throwing big bombs wouldn't automatically have no chance just because a boxer is in town. I really can't buy into the myth that every boxer has such laser accuracy and knockout power, the latter for the most part. I agree MMA fighters don't throw a punch like a boxer would, there's no snap and there's very rarely an MMA fighter with a good jab and sometimes they swing, but I think there's guys out there that have the tools to beat a boxer standing up without focusing primarily on their legs. Obviously you can't discount legs altogether, I just mean not on the level of Griffin/Rampage or Aldo/Faber (bit of an extreme example, but still). A leg kick can interrupt the entire rhythm of a boxer. All I'm saying is boxers have their game, MMA fighters have their own. Boxers are highly skilled in their game, MMA fighters have their own disciplines. Inside the boxing ring, always back the boxer, inside the MMA ring or cage, don't be so sure the boxer has automatically got it just because it's going to be a stand up fighter. Some boxers you can't deny would **** up pretty much everyone (I'd be stupid to say someone like a Prime Roy Jones or even as he is now couldn't **** up all the competition) but guys like Toney? Mayweather? Specialist boxers, not built for an MMA fight, especially one with the pace they set. It doesn't seem like much but I can't imagine 3x5 minutes is as easy as it looks, even for a boxer. I would think the best type of boxer for an MMA fight would be a vicious bodypuncher. Very few MMA fighters could stand up to something Hatton or Gatti or really, any boxer that knows what he's doing downstairs could produce. That's where they can really hurt the guy. And a jab is essential for them to keep their opponent off them.
Botha actually made the move to transition to K-1 bouts during his hiatus from boxing, training to check and dish out leg kicks, which are vital points. Regardless, he went 4-11. His high-profile wins came against Jerome LeBanner (who was coming off a career-threatening injury and a hiatus himself because of it) when Le Banner's corner threw in the towel due to him no longer being able to continue, despite the fact that he was dominating the fight prior. It only went to an extra round because LeBanner was forced to take a knee in the second based on the one flush blow Botha managed to land. Even though it shouldn't have, considering Botha was yellow-carded in that very same round. Prior to, and after, that Le Banner was even dominating the punching exchanges. Either way, Le Banner had notoriously poor stamina and his consistency, especially at that point in his career, suffered because of it. Not the best chin, either. His other high-profile wins came against Peter Aerts (who suffered a freak leg injury within a minute of the fight when his shin collided with Botha's while throwing a kick) and Kaoklai Kaennorsing (a Thai Middleweight whom he beat by Decision). Otherwise he's been put in his place. The typical pure-boxer/kick-boxer matchup looks more like this: [yt]jA70VAc3OTo[/yt]
sorry to have offended I like MMA. I was commenting on the UFC fighters of today, learning fighting based on the reality show. I like fighters you mentioned who get a mastery of one art and integrate/cross train. SOmetimes it just gets out of hand where they set an ideal and all incomers strive for that single ideal, losing their basic art on fight night. my comment was mostly concerned about the future where the new fighters would no longer need to learn the old art form. BUt it is ok, things change and MMA would soon be just like boxing. It would be about styles: striker, grappler, wrestler, submission specialist etc.
