Mayweather says " Ali Was The Greatest Im Best Ever"

No man, that's a FACT. PAC is at least 10 spots ahead of Floyd.

 

I know. Thats what happened in real life. In the Thrilla doc they made it seem like frazier was ok with it.

They interviewed Frazier and Frazier said he was like "No dont stop it" Then after awhile conceded and told Futch to "Shut it down"

Where infact frazier was pissed!

Thats different. Liston had pulled some mob **** and blinded Ali. Totally out of the realm of Ali's control being ****ed like that. Against frazier, Frazier took Ali's best punches, couldnt see, and was still coming. Ali was going to quit because Frazier was making him quit. Not because of other circumstances.

Ali would not have got up to go out for the 15th. He and his corner have stated it numerous times. Frazier took Ali's soul that night, and possibly his health.

How did Ali have more wear and tear then Louis? And like I said, Louis ended matters in the 2nd fight. Ali never did. Ali got arguably 2 gifts.

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Muhammad_Ali_vs._Ken_Norton_%282nd_meeting%29

Of the sportswriters polled 8 had it for Ali. 6 had it for Norton. 1 had it even.

I scored it even personally. However I must say that Louis never struggled with an opponent in his prime did he? Again only loss Louis had in his prime he avenged it emphatically. Frazier and Norton were Ali's bane.

Fair enough. :good Cant argue with that.

 

yeah, in the filipines

 

Ray Robinson is the greatest. Floyd is just the best right now.

 

Could care less. Floyd is viewed as the greater fighter. Pac is viewed as nominally the more accomplished.

Pacquiao ****ed his legacy by losing for a 2nd time to Marquez. If he had just ducked Marquez as Roach and Camp had planned all along instead of believing Marquez was shot and that his weight would give him an advantage, Pacquiao would be viewed as one of the top 20 greatest fighters ever.


As time persists, people will poke more and more holes in his legacy, and more then likely given his style he's going to take a pummeling sooner or later.

 

Make a poll :hi:

And it's Philippines you idiot.

 

And in many ways the sport has devolved tremendously. :deal

 

tomato potato. still the land of the baklas :yep

 

A 33 year old Whitaker, past his best weight and prime fought a prime Oscar at his best division better than Floyd did. Forget the official record. That tells you a lot abut the differences between Whitaker and Floyd in terms of ability and greatness. Even if Mayweather is superior defensively...[/quote]
True. Like I said, I consider Whitaker far and away more accomplished and higher ranked then Mayweather. Defensively I think its a wash.

But Whitaker clowning Oscar is a greater victory then even if Mayweather beats Pacquiap. Not to mention schooling Chavez. I mean Whitaker's resume is just one long list of schoolings lol.

 

Martinez would be a big win for Floyd but I think he could beat him without to much trouble.

The way Pavlik picked apart Martinez when he was badly out of shape is one reason. His performances against Williams, Cintron and Barker did not impress me much either.

 

It always makes me shake my head when people say the sport has evolved since the past.

I mean to people really think someone like Amir Khan is as athletically gifted as Sugar Ray Robinson or even a tenth of his technical ability.

Peeps back in the day fought twice a week when the sport was the most popular sport in the world. Robinson once said that he fought so much that everything he did in the ring was natural reaction. He didnt even have to think about he was about to do anymore, it just came naturally because he fought so much.


Now look at Khan huffing and puffing against Maidana, and Pacquiao complaining of leg cramps with there so called modern nutrition and scientifically created workout regimes. And they only go 12 rounds once every 6 months.

I mean do people really think Pavlik is more technically and athletically skilled then Carlos Monzon?

 

What has happend MW?

This is the first real post I have heard from you in a long time.

Very good and I agree with all.

 

I didn't get that impression with the Doc. They showed how Frazier was pissed about it. I thought Frazier was relaying Futch saying "Shut it down." Could be wrong on that detail. It's minor anyway.

Did you watch the fight? Ali was laying it on Frazier. It's the most brutal of all the round in the trilogy, and it's Frazier getting pasted by shots from Ali. There are moments Frazier sort of staggers but his will keeps him up.

It's rather transparent at this point that you're a Frazier fan in the same way of being a Floyd fan, and thus can't be completely objective in matters of your favorites rivals.

I'm a huge Frazier fan. Both Frazier and Ali are 2nd favorite fighters of all time (Behind Marciano). You can't say Ali would have not gotten up because it never happened. He never had the chance to. The only thing that's been reported and confirmed by Ali was that he "wanted" to quit before the 15th. He also wanted to quit against Liston. Same difference here.

They both damaged each other quite a bit. Who did worse to whose health is impossible to quantify. Ali's later fights with Norton, Shavers, Spinks, Holmes, and Berbick took him beyond the brink. He should've retired after the Shavers bout.

You just said it yourself. Frazier took Ali's health away. The FOTC was more grueling than probably 10 of Louis fights put together. Add that to the Norton bouts, Foreman bouts, Frazier bouts. Soon enough you see Ali on the ropes talking too many shots. Besides, Ali's style relied far more on athleticism, speed, and reflexes than Louis' did. In a similar sense to Roy Jones Jr, except Ali was far more durable.






http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Muhammad_Ali_vs._Ken_Norton_(2nd_meeting)

Of the sportswriters polled 8 had it for Ali. 6 had it for Norton. 1 had it even.

I scored it even personally. However I must say that Louis never struggled with an opponent in his prime did he? Again only loss Louis had in his prime he avenged it emphatically. Frazier and Norton were Ali's bane. [/quote]

If Norton won he barely scrapped it. Ali seemed to have greater command of the rounds he did when which explains why some had Ali winning a bit more widely.

I don't think it's fair to say Ali was even in his prime against Ken Norton, even for the 1st fight. At least far away from his peak. It's almost like saying Tyson when in his prime for his second fight with Bruno and first with Holyfield.

Louis lost to Max Schemling in his prime. Ali arguably never lost in his prime. FOTC and Frazier were after a 3+ year layoff where Ali was never truly the same. Besides, Joe Frazier is greater than anyone Louis ever fight. I'd put the Ali-Norton fights personally around the Louis-Walcott fights in terms of the stage of their careers personally.

 

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I know. He got brutalized in the round before ali was about to quit. But hey we have seen plenty of fighters break trying to get the other guy out. Happens all the time. And it happened here. Ali was a wave crashing against a rock. The Wave broke first obviously.

Nope. I'm more of an Ali fan then a Frazier fan. Even though I dont like Ali's politics and views. I still enjoy watching his fights and he would probably crack my top 10 favorite fighters ever. However I will call a spade a spade. Ali got his soul took that night. And he bowed before Frazier before the night was over.


However I believe Louis was the greater Heavyweight. You make some good points, and alot of correct points. But I wont be swayed from my opinion on the matter, just from what I've seen in eachothers careers.

Good argument though. :good

 

:good

I think a good way of saying it is that Mayweather is a bit overly defensive in nature, which is why Whitaker is more well-rounded or versatile a fighter offensively. In a sense, Locche also is also almost too purely defensive. His gifts on defensive are supernatural, and there is a showy quality to being too defensive which negliges offense to an extent. With Mayweather, it's like that Marquez shift of him making him look silly. But what did he really do there? He didn't score any points. Boxing is about balance.

What do you think Locche in terms of just defensive ability? Personally, I think he's the best to the point of being too defensive. There's little subtlety to his game.