Mayweather would shut Pavlik out

If you think that, then why use it as a reference to Pavlik's good skills are closing the ring off? You can't have it both ways, it's one or the other, obviously.

For it to be a relevant point, Miranda would need to have proven that he could fight off the backfoot, and you just admitted he hadn't proven that.

Mayweather has great movement, I don't know how you can say otherwise. The difference between him now and at 130lbs, is he now moves less, but his movement is still as good as it has ever been. He just chooses to fight a more defensively static way, but when he moves, he is as quick and elusive as he ever has been.

Saying Mayweather doesn't have great movement, makes me think you just don't know what you're talking about.

Hopkins was setting traps, which is why he got close, but he didn't show great skills at cutting the ring off. Hopkins was happy to move into him, but any time Hopkins wanted to keep his distance, he did so with ease.

Of course he can fight the way he wants and still land. Are you a moron or something? This is Floyd Mayweather - Sure, he has his faults, but if you think he's just going to run all night and not land a thing, just because he has a height and reach deficit, you are crazy.

He doesn't have to close the distance at all. He can wait for openings, which, with Pavlik are often because of his poor balance, and take advantage then. Pavlik falls into his jab when it misses, so if Mayweather slips that, he can easily land.

What makes you think Pavlik's jab would land? Many better fights than him have failed to land their jabs on Mayweather, and their jabs have been faster and more accurate. Why would Mayweather not be able to avoid a slower, more obvious jab?

Of course, but there are fighters who have fought out of their weight class. If it was so important, how could Duran beat Barkley or Leonard beat Hagler? Styles will always be a bigger factor than weight.

It doesn't matter about specific examples really - That was just to prove my point. You put such an emphasis on size, I wanted you to admit that there are fights where size isn't the key factor.

Who wins? Benitez or Pavlik?

Yeah, on the ropes, waiting for counters, like he did against De La Hoya. An of course you can counter a guy you "can't reach". Pavlik has no balance and leaves himself open to punches after he has thrown his own. When he does that, Mayweather can and will hit him.

I agree and I don't think Mayweather would clinch. Pavlik throws his punches when his feet are planted, so as long as Mayweather can make Pavlik stay moving, there is no reason to suggest Pavlik would throw many punches.

Given movement, Pavlik won't be able to throw his power shots and his workrate will drop considerably.

He didn't get his respect when he knocked him down? He managed to get De La Hoya's respect when he wobbled him, for ****s sake, yet he can't even bother Pavlik?

You think he'll walk through anything Mayweather throws. Whilst agree Mayweather can't knock down or severely hurt Pavlik, he isn't going to just take his punches without blinking.

Most fighters, yes. However, most fighters are not Floyd Mayweather.

1. Monzon is better than Pavlik
2. Monzon is a tough fight stylisitically for Napoles

That comparison isn't really relevant.

OK...

1. When in the centre of the ring, Mayweather keeps on his toes and makes Pavlik follow him around the ring. Pavlik therefore cannot get his power punches or combinations off.

2. When Mayweather inevitably gets to the ropes, Pavlik has a tendancy to load up on his punches and if they miss, which they would the majority of the time, he falls forward, leaving Mayweather with a prime target in front of him.

3. Pavlik needs to land his jab, to get any momentum going, yet I don't see him being able to land it on the incredibly elusive Mayweather, who has made avoiding faster guys than Pavlik into an artform.

4. When things aren't going right for Pavlik, what will he do to change it? He has no other fight plan. His body work isn't good enough to beat Mayweather, he can't fight on the inside.

5. Most of the fight would take place at range, which would suit Mayweather, because it gives him a lot of time to see Pavlik's punches. This is where Pavlik's height plays against him, because he can't fight on the inside and from the outside, his two main punches are very visible. Mayweather can watch what Pavlik is doing and figure out a defence for it, before the punches land.




If Pavlik had the timing of Monzon, or could fight on the inside like Hagler, or was crafty like Hopkins, he would win. He just has no styles advantage at all on Mayweather. Yes, size is important in boxing, but Mayweather is much more talented than Pavlik, has a big styles advantage and the extra few inches and 20lbs that Pavlik has, would not override the positives Mayweather has.

 

Exactly. Size is only an advantage if you can use it.

 

Mosley has a more awkward style than Pavlik does, though I don't expect Mosley to win any round where Mayweather fights hard. Mayweather tends to start slow, so if he loses the first 3 rounds to Mosley then wins the rest, I wouldn't be suprised.

 

Who wins now?