McGovern vs Gans

Part II- Watch him snap out his jab at an onrushing Nelson and then watch him just hold his left out at McGovern like hes measuring him but never does anything.

Sorry to tell such an esteemed collector of films as yourself, but Gans did the same thing in the Herman fight, but I guess you missed that. JJ had the same kind of jab, a stiff arm jab, football style.

Watch the weak uppercuts he throws inside that have no steam whatsoever then watch how vicious he is against Nelson on the inside.

What you seem unable to grasp, is that McGovern hit harder then Nelson, and had a different style. Gans was prepared for Nelson over the long haul. The McGovern fight was a six rdr. Wasnt there an agreement about if McGovern went the distance who would get paid? Yes, there was that should explain something but I guess not to you. I leave it to you to explain.

He has no footwork whatsoever against McGovern and yet he looks like a dancing master against Nelson.

Again seeing you dont know what you are looking at, what the films show supports my case then it does yours, the "dancing master", was moving away in a straight line, hardly a dancing master, cos you can see Nelson throwing one punch at a time chasing Gans also in a straight line.

Against McGovern when Gans steps back and creates distance he doesnt throw anything whereas against Nelson he creates distances and constantly catches Nelson.
Maybe you missed the part where McGovern was throwing bombs with both hands, so much so that Gans was on the defensive. McGovern and Nelson didnt fight the same, one relied on his power the other on his strength, durability and stamina. The reason Gans is backing up is that Nelson is chasing him. You want to see the difference what a true dancing master is and what Gans was doing, check out Willie Pep.

Nelson was much stronger than McGovern and look how Gans holds up to his wrestling as opposed to McGovern against whom he looks like a reed in a high wind.

A bit of exaggeration, but yes I would say Nelson was physically stronger but that doesnt translate into power.

Watch him constantly drop his hands to his sides against McGovern but against Nelson actually uses the shoulder roll and a right guard.

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Here is a clear tape of Gans fighting Nelson, please show all the wonderful things or even a hint? Look at Gans hands this is just the way he fought. @ the :23 sec Nelson wings a left hook, the difference in the two fights is McGovern would've followed up with something. Gans is wide open. I already know your reply, you have a pristine copy which nobody can see but you, and your other favorite what are you see in a short clip. The problem there is there are a few more clips and other fights Gans fought and he looks just about the same.

The very first time Gans goes down the left hook by Mcgovern doesnt even land, it loops around the back of the neck. Its not even disputable that it landed. It didnt. It literally loops around Gans' neck, misses entirely and Gans crumbles. If you see a punch landing here you are imagining things. And thats the bottom line.

OMG cherry picking what you see, what you so expertly omit is what happened before he went down, but as you say
"Some people will ignore what they see and know because they WANT to believe the fairy tale."


Just prior to the fight the manager of Tattersalls having heard the rapidly spreading rumors of a fix took the referee, George Siler, aside and instructed him that the fight must be cleared of any hint of a fix. Siler took the fighters aside and instructed them that they had to give their best efforts. After the fight Siler refused to go so far as to say the bout was fixed but clearly troubled he stated that Gans had given a poor effort and the experts ringside declared that Gans had not fought up to his previous ability. Later Siler stated that if Gans was trying to win then he (Siler) did not know his business. Siler also backs up what can clearly be seen on the film: Gans punches were not thrown with any power on them whatsoever.
Yeppers, but again you not so cleverly omit that Siler changed his mind at the hotel. You cannot not say including Siler that Gans wasnt hit and hit hard. Nobody is stupid enough to get hit cleanly time and again by a murderous puncher as was McGovern, with those tiny gloves in use at the time. Gans could have stayed down after a couple of KD's but no he kept getting, your take, Gans wanted it to look good. Talk about fantasy, everything Siler said and anybody else said is not a fact, you yourself stated there were "rumors". Rumors dont make it so. Gans was on the defensive from the get-go as clearly shown in the tape, he was overwhelmed by McGovern's two fisted, relentless attack and he was caught, thats it thats the fight, but you rather believe rumors instead of your own eyes, amazing.

Part III coming up

 

Why not start watching at the
1:15 McGovern is bulling Gans actually pushing Gans around
1:17 mark watch how Gans is holding on for dear life, from what do you suppose? If you notice what Gans' left hand is doing.
1:21 plainly Gans is uncomfortable in this type of fight
1:25 mark Gans is putting up his right to defend against a left hook
1:28-29 mark McGovern feints the hook and Gans backs up and instead McGovern throws a right swing.
1:28 mark, Did you happen to catch Gans reaction to the feint, plainly Gans doesnt think McGovern had no pop.
1:30 McGovern is holding Gans's left hand under his right arm, but continuing to throw his left hook
1:33 notice Gans is holding McGovern in close with both hands.
1:34 mark Gans pops a good one to McGoverns body.
1:38 mark you see Gans grab McGovern's left arm in a vise type grip, preventing McGovern from throwing.
1:40 mark, oops McGovern catches Gans with a hard left hook and follows it up with a right
1:46-54 mark they are wrestling McGovern is trying to throw Gans holds, the ref has a hard time separating them, but it seems Gans is the guiltier party.
1:59 McGovern lands a long right hand to Gans' head.
2:00 Gans pushes McGovern away to get some distance but McGovern steps in
2:02 mark clearly this is not Gans type of fight
2:18-19 Gans throws a right to the body
2:22 Gans throws a stiff arm jab which he also used in the Herman fight. That's just the way they did it back then.
2:26 McGovern lands left hook
2:30 McGovern lands another Left
2:31 McGovern lands a nice hard right to the body, clearly the pressure and aggression McGovern is putting on Gans is bothering him.
2:36 Gans lands a good uppercut on McGovern who as usual is coming in
2:37 McGovern lands a right hand
2:38-9 McGovern feints Gans and lands a right swing
2:41-2 Gans sets himself and using his left hand as a guide hauls off and throws his best punch of the nighta solid right to McGovern's head
2:47 notice Gans' mouth it's wide open
2:55 McGovern lands a left hook and Gans' head disappears
2:57 Gans is floundering watch his legs
3:05 Gans is tagged again with a right and this time he seems to be hurt
3:08 Gans is trying to push off McGovern
3:14 McGovern snaps Gans' head back
3:20 McGovern throws another left hook and a right uppercut and follows it with a left that snaps Gans' head back
3:21 Gans shows the effects of those punches
3:24 Gans is again hit with a hard left
3:29 Gans is again hit with a hard left
3:29-30 Gans is hurt with McGovern hot after him
3:38-9 The ref is trying hard to pull them apart with Gans holding
3:43 mark Gans goes down finally with that left over his shoulder
3:55-7 Gans again is hit with the left and then a right over the top and Gans is on the deck again
4:00 Siler is trying to help Gans and apparently he's pissed off cos he throws off siler's help and walks to his corner, thus ends the 1st rd.

 

Part III-Gans manager gave the excuse that Gans had been hit at the start of the first rounds by a left to the stomach that was identical to the Fitz-Corbett "solar plexus" punch and that ruined Gans.
Off course you choose to ignore this, cos you know better, you would rather take rumors as fact over somebody who was actually there. If it was the other way around you would take it as an undisputable fact.

This is untrue as the films show McGovern landing nothing of consequence to the body and in fact hes head hunting most of the time.
Since the camera is stationary the only punch to the body that seems to land is a right to the body.

Gans is fight decidedly unlike Gans long before McGovern lands anything to the body. If that wasnt enough the betting irregularities alone were enough to cast a shadow over the fight.
Again irregularities does not constitute a fact, especially betting irregularities

The money that flooded in on McGovern at the last minute swung the odds heavily in his favor despite the fact that most experts gave him little chance.

Again that means nothing and only conspiracy theorists would hang their hat on this.

Gamblers were ringside at the fight carrying huge rolls of money and offering great odds on what most would have considered the longshot of Gans being stopped by McGovern early.
Gamblers are always at ringside even now, all the casino's in vegas have betting action.

In gambling establishments all over the country money flooded in from out of town on McGovern which was considered odd by most.
By you, it's a known fact people bet on fights, since the Roman days.

Gans manager defended himself and Gans by claiming that he actually bet between $3,500 and 5,000 on Gans and lost but people close to him stated that no money actually ever changed hands and that this "bet" was a ruse to cover the fix.

Name these unknown people, you have a history of exaggeration, like the "Firpo ran from Greb" fact lol. I could mention more but what the heck.

 

klompton2, Dempsey you can post your asinine bull**** all you want. 90% of the time its starry eyed hero worship with no substance.. I dont even read most of it.

O yea, please you read all of it stop lying lol.

Im not interested enough in what you have to say. But to dispute that Gans went down from a punch that didnt land the first time means you are blind or have an agenda.
You are right you're blind to the punches before that "KD" and that he was hurt my agenda is pure and simple I call it as I see it. You are more than welcome to your pov. No problem.

To dispute that Nelson was bigger and stronger is just ridiculous (just go read the reports of their bout where Nelson was literally tossing McGovern around the ring.
Maybe you missed the part where I agreed with you about Nelson being stronger. I dont have to read articles to know that and that Nelson threw McGovern is no big surprise. Since reading articles is your strength and boxing knowledge your weakness, consider what kind of fighter the Battler was and what was his strength's, strong, durable, great stamina, and it's a surprise to you that he threw McGovern around.

Oh wait, anyone who actually tries to learn their history is anathema to you...).
Yes if it's based on rumors and hearsay with no definitive proof.

To dispute that he hit as hard or harder than Terry McGovern defies the simple fact that he has just as many knockouts against bigger men than McGovern does and unless Im mistaken he didnt have anywhere near as many fixes or rumors thereof attached to his name.

I will assume in your haste you meant Nelson. Yes I do most of Nelson's ko's were of the many rds variety.

To dispute that McGovern hit anywhere near as hard as guys like Langford and Walcott, well, I'll let the other posters deal with that little fantasy.
This is your fantasy not mine, different fights and fighters different results, different tactic's. For example you dont mess around with Langford or Walcott you fight them differently then you would fight McGovern, but since boxing knowledge is beyond you. For instance Walcott stopped Choynski, and Jeffries didnt, in your world Walcott hit harder then Jeffries cos he stopped Choynski and Jefferies couldnt.

ll I can do is laugh at that assertion.
Believe me I do laff at your assertions

Think little Terry could have made it out of one round with Joe Jeanette much less floor him numerous times and win a 20 round contest?

Holy sh it how did Jenette get in this? OMG are you reaching, like I once said about you, you have to be a part time pysstorian and a full time comedian. You might as well said Harry Wills one of your fav's. O man too too funny.

To keep going on and on and on about McGovern's small gloves as if Gans didnt fight EVERY opponent wearing those small gloves is, again, purely wishful thinking on your part.
But that's the facts he did and he went down, cos he was caught cold, I went through a sec by second breakdown of the fight which you can peruse at your leisure.

To dispute that McGovern was an average puncher at best at LW is again, flying in the face of reality.

To dispute a noted puncher couldnt punch at a 10 pd difference in weight flies in the face of reality, note Gan's reaction to those average punches, jeez.

Just go look at his record against LWs. I could go on and on but its ridiculous.
Jeez then the ref was making Gans's head snap back, and made Gans go down.

Your delusional and thats the end of it. Believe what you want but anyone can compare Gans performances and see hes play acting, particularly when he goes down from a punch that doesnt even land.
Here you go drowning and brings up the same thing over and over and over again, and in doing so you totally ignore what went on before. But if you want act the fool and cant see anything but that, then who is delusional
I'll let everyone else be the judge, most throughout history have sided with me.
Really, who other pysstorians who build their fantasies on rumors and conspiracy theories, with absolutely no definitive proof. Yeah ok lol

When Im on the opposite side of the fence as you I consider myself in good company.

You would haha, explain again the Dempsey contract, you're right I do get a good laff from your assertions.

All I can say is Rumors and conspiracy theories are not facts, maybe in your fantasyland not in the real world. The above are your theories and interpretation of those rumors, my interpretations are based on visual evidence, there is a difference you know. As proof why do you feel the way you do about my posts, why do they bother you so? You get angry I dont I mean somebody of your stature shouldnt feel the way you do, but guess what you do.