McIntosh, Sylvester/Geale, Prizefighter International HW, Pacquiao v Mosley PPV RBR!!

I saved this from The Rings website, it's quite a good explanation

Former Nevada boxing judge Chuck Giampa, now a consultant who advises fighters, provides occasional analyses of officials and scorecards when he's not directly involved in an event. Here is his take on two rounds in the Manny Pacquiao-Miguel Cotto fight on Saturday in Las Vegas.

As one-sided as the Manny Pacquiao-Miguel Cotto fight was, there were two interesting rounds that call for an analysis.

Pacquiao scored a knock down in the third round. The HBO commentators and Harold Lederman scored that round 10-8 for Pacquiao because "Pacquiao knocked down Cotto." Most fans and TV commentators automatically score a round 10-8 in favor of the fighter who scores the knockdown.

However, Judges Dave Moretti and Adalaide Byrd scored that round 10-9 for Pacquiao while Duane Ford scored it 10-8 for Pacquiao. Each of the judges' explanation of their score is what is important. Bear in mind that judging is very subjective and each judge's scores are based on that judge's philosophy.

Although two judges differed with the third judge in that third round, each was correct based on their philosophy and judgment.

The criteria for scoring a knock down is not based on the premise that the fighter who scores the knockdown automatically is awarded a 10-8. The correct criteria that is taught by Duane Ford in his ABC certification classes for boxing judges is:

If Fighter A is winning the round and scores a knockdown and continues to win the round after the knockdown, then Fighter A is awarded the round 10-8. However, if Fighter A is winning the round and gets knocked down by Fighter B, then Fighter B is awarded the round 10-9. The key is: Which fighter won the round without the knockdown? Thus, most fans and TV commentators are incorrect in automatically scoring a 10-8 round for a fighter who scores a knock down without taking into consideration who won the round without the knock down.

It may seem like a contradiction but all three official judges were correct in their scores for that round based on their philosophy. Moretti and Byrd felt that Cotto won the round without the knock down; hence their 10-9 score for Pacquiao. Ford stated that he thought that Pacquiao won the round without the knock down; hence his score of 10-8 for Pacquiao. It's important to understand that Ford's score was not 10-8 automatically because of the knock down. Each of these experienced judges scored that round based on which fighter won the round and then took into account the knock down.

The 10th round was also interesting. Moretti and Ford scored it 10-9 in favor of Cotto even though Cotto was losing 89-81 twice and 89-80 after nine rounds. Experienced judges are careful not to be lulled into scoring automatically. Moretti and Ford felt that Cotto out boxed Pacquiao in the 10th round and awarded Cotto the round.

The official scores after 11 rounds were: Byrd 109-99, Ford 108-99 and Moretti 108-100, all in favor of Pacquiao.

Just as each baseball umpire has his own "strike zone," Class A judges have their philosophy based on training, education and experience.

 

Yep, no such thing as an automatic 10-8 for a knockdown but thats different from awarding the 2 points and then taking them back.

In the Mosely-Pac fight my card would have gone 1) 2 points to Mosely for the knockdown 2) 1 point for Pac for winning the round = 10-9 Mosely. I'd have no real argument with 10-10 but I wouldn't score it that way because that would be saying the round was 10-8 Pac without the knockdown and I don't think it was.

 

Both the above good pieces :good and obviously scoring and judging will always be subjective, it's impossible to do it otherwise.

As for this Pacquiao/Mosley 'knockdown', in my opinion it clearly wasn't a knockdown (even without seeing the replay it looked like just a push/slip). Therefore even though the referee decided to give Manny a count, this was wiped out for me and Pacquiao still takes the round 10-9. That's what all 3 of the judges did anyway and I agree with them.

On a side note, just to prove how subjective judging can be.. check the scorecards for Sylvester v Geale! A 16 point swing from two cards!

 

I agree with Big Dunk. I like to have a card I can compare with the judges/other fans on a level playing field and that SHOULD mean everyone scoring knockdowns even if they are shown to be slips. Obviously everyone is free to do their own thing but IMHO its better if everyone sticks to the same rules of the sport.

 

:huh That's what all 3 judges had...

 

The worst example of automatic scoring was the Hopkins/Pascal fight.

Pascal was probably losing both of those rounds, and essentially was awarded three points for each..... from losing 10-9 to winning 10-8.

Last night was just another example of Richardson devising a plan to take away an opponents best weapons but with a fighter unable to implement properly. The little half step and circling to the left was clever, but where were the counters?

That said, Pacquiao was a bit off himself.... looking forward to Marquez getting his tuneup out of the way before hopefully the 3rd fight is finally made. Bring it on!

 

IMHO (and according those articles above) they scored the round wrongly.

10-9 Mosely is correct IMHO.
10-10 is debatable I guess
10-9 Pac is incorrect IMHO.

 

I know it probably comes across as a bit arrogant to claim to know better than 3 professional judges but I honestly believe they ****ed that round up.

 

Yes, unless the judges have the power to disregard knockdowns which clearly aren't knockdowns. I didn't think they did but perhaps they do in Nevada. Manny clearly won the round and with a **** weak excuse for a knockdown against him I'd have made it even personally. 10-8 for Mosley is something only a ****** like Jim Watt who doesn't have anything more than a rudimentary understanding of scoring could justify.

 

For me Pacquiao clearly won the round, it wasn't a knockdown. 10-9. Simple as. I see what you're saying about officially they maybe need to just agree with the referee but Mosley deserved nothing from that round in all fairness.

Johnny Nelson at the end was ridiculous as well. "Father time has caught up with Manny" Barry just laughed at him

Manny just can't fight at his best against defensive fighters. Everyone already knew that