McVey and Mendoza going mental again

I don't beleive so, he obviously benefited from the pointers he got from Choynski, but I am unaware of a specific trainer that he used.

 

I'm actually grateful to Mendoza for taking his stand against Jack Johnson, along with all the distortions of facts etc.
If Mendoza hadn't been so extreme and driven in these debates over the years he wouldn't have provoked others here (eg. McVey, Janitor) to endeavour to air the historical facts, and unearth so much info (some provided by original research from such experts as Matt D, KSmith etc.).

All of which has resulted in a renewed appreciation of Johnson, and a greater understanding of why he stands as one of the true all-time greats of boxing.

Recent threads and offerings from McVey, McGrain, Janitor and Matt Donellon have made great reading. Thanks to eslubin too.

While Mendoza sometimes deserves mocking for his (I think) dishonest attempts to distort the historical record, he nevertheless acts as an invaluable catalyst for great discussion and knowledge-sharing and discovery in the subject of the great Jack Johnson.
And besides, a variety of opinions, however unfounded, are vital for productive debate. Recent exchanges have shown that when those opinions and prejudices are passed off as facts despite evidence to the contrary, it won't go unnoticed.
So, overall Mendoza's influence in discussions on Jack Johnson has been on balance very positive, despite the ill-feeling between him and some other postors.

As things stand at the moment, I'd certainly have Jack Johnson as a lock for inclusion among the top 4 heavyweights of all-time.

 

I beleive this to be true, as I said in an earlier post, by his absurd distortion of facts and outright lies, Mendoza has focused attention on Jack Johnson , attention that he might very well otherwise not have received,in these times.It is an irony that may be lost on Johnson's most bitter, and unrepentant hater ,but one that I find very amusing.

 

Never said it did. The doc does tell the story of the judges, two of which could not make up their mind, and the other felt Jim should have won. the decision of a draw was dubious.

The CB, researched by Callis, and DeLisa say the match was 20 rounds. Those guys put in 1000's of hours of re-search.

 

Due to an unbelievably busy schedule I can only sit sidelines and watch with amusement at the unbelievable contortions of logic and suspension of disbelief which the Johnson Jonestowner's must endure in order to purport their man was anything more than a top flight heavyweight for his era. The lassitude of critical rigor accorded his record is truly astonishing by these types. If nothing else, I can commend them on the monomania. Good work. I am pleased that some find fictions in which they can truly believe.

 

Let's hope that busy schedule , continues for some considerable time .:good

 

Matt has posted newpaper clippings that prove it was a 10 round fight.

I posted an account of the Langford fight witnessed by A .D Phillips ,which says Langford was knocked down twice . Included was a letter to the Ring ,written by Johnson, denying Langford floored him, and stating it was an easy fight.

I also posted Langford's quote where he admitted Johnson gave him, "the only real beating I ever took ".


I posted an account from Nat Fleischer , interviewing Joe Woodman ,Langford's manager ,who in the interview ,admitted he made up the story of the false knockdown.


Eslubin has posted the newspaper clipping containing the quote from Jeffries stating," I could never have beaten him in a thousand years",


You have been proven wrong on all counts .

I cannot recall you ever conceding you were wrong ,so I expect no acknowledgement from you admitting the obvious.

No matter, the posters on here have the measure of you.
Your credibility ,tenuous at best ,is now ZERO.

DR ZERO.I SUGGEST, A LOCKED ROOM, AND, A LOADED PISTOL, DO THE DECENT THING,YOU KNOW IT MAKES SENSE.

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I see you place great credence in the views of Tracy Callis .
I wonder if you would care to comment on this ?

JACK JOHNSON
" Jack Johnson was the first Black heavyweight Champion,and ,as such, was a hero to his race. His ability in the ring is unquestioned,and,possibly unequalled.
He could do it all ,do it well ,and do it with ease."

TRACY CALLIS

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I am quite familiar with Tracy and Mike and rate them highly. I also have contributed to CBZ. I am sometimes in error, so are they. Anybody can do the research and the only reference I ever found in contemperanous records of the claimed twenty rounds schedule is in several American papers carrying the same list of scheduled bouts, the error obviously having the one origin. Not all the American papers carried that, some had it down for ten.
Now if you don't want to accept the ads carried in the week prior to the contest in the French press or the same day build-up write up(and whyever not?) did it not occur to you that there would be one hell of a hullabaloo if a title fight was terminated at halfway and sent to the judges? do you think the French are brainless?
As for the "Unforgivable Blackness" doc. I haven't seen it but I have the book, it swallows Jack's version completely and never gets into the judges decision at all. Now I have NO DOUBT that it was a scheduled ten round fight and I'll say no more on it. If others chose to believe otherwise, so be it.

 

Contract them ( Mike and Tracy ), and report back. You might give MCvey a heart attack when you break the news....

Fight in those days were not always fair in square. Please explain to me why Johnson retained his colored title when he was roughed up by Joe Jeanette in round one, then went low un-purpose to the point where Joe could not continue. Johnson was rightly DQ'd, but he still kept his title. Absolute horse ****. The Jim battling Johnson vs. Jack Johnson fight should not have been a draw based on the reports I read. Jim was the better. But Jack kept his title. The French were upset about this fight.

 

Matt has called you on this, now be a man, and admit you are wrong[lying imo. ]
ps Perhaps you would benefit from some adult education classes, on English, and grammar ?

 

And I asked Matt to contract the people he has high respect with and report back. Now, I have a life and job to attend to. You don't see me posting during the day time here. Try not to wet your keyboard with false hopes.

Please explain to me why Johnson retained his colored title when he was roughed up by Joe Jeanette in round one, then went low un-purpose to the point where Joe could not continue. Johnson was rightly DQ'd, but he still kept his title. Absolute horse ****.

 

The French were pissed off because they felt the fight was a fix and had little or no action with lots of hugging and clinching. I have a ringside round by round report and from memory Jack dominated the first three, the rest were spent in mutual spoiling until the last round when both men appeared to shake one another up.
I wouldn't place equal credence on the NY times report but there is no doubt Jack Johnson didn't perform well. I wont be contacting the CBZ boys as I KNOW it was a ten round affair.

 

Why should MATT CONTACT either of those mentioned ,he allready knows the answer as does everyone else?

UN- PURPOSE???????:huh

Are you saying Johnson's foul against Jeanette was accidental?

Please explain, what relevance , Johnson's DSQ ,against Jeanette has to Johnson's defence against Jim Johnson?

Johnson fought Jeanette 7 times, Jeanettte won only 1 ,and that on a foul.


Jeanette fought Battling Jim Johnson 10 times , losing 1, another was a NO DEC , winning 5 , and drawing in 3. IN NONE OF THE DRAWS DID JEANETTE HAVE A BROKEN ARM:rofl

ps. Do you drink a lot of horse ****?

Because you sure talk a lot of horse ****.:hi:

 

I have a life and a very full one . Been to a Jazz night ,the theatre, card game. birthday party[grand child''s] reunion with some friends,and a lodge night in the space of a week. Plus working three lurchers in the field, every day.I come on here when it suits me.
Don't have to worry about work, I am the boss, so I can do as I like.


Now run along ,you minion