Meldrick "TNT Kid" Taylor - pinpointing the moment the fuse was snuffed...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, May 24, 2019.



  1. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Tyler went away. Tyler's gone. Staff Member

    352,998
    29,699
    Sportsbook:
    2,542
    Nov 30, 2006
    Legend holds that it was the first Chávez fight - among the most heartbreaking defeats snatched from the jaws of victory ever to be endured by a boxer, at least that we know of, in the modern filmed era - that put the proverbial boot on the wheels of this speedster, and ruined him forevermore. I'm not convinced...

    For two years thereafter, Meldrick would post similarly impressive form as during his initial undefeated rise prior to Chávez I. Sure, he took a beating, and sure a portion of his love of the game might have died that night (it would've been weird if he wasn't a little bitterly disgruntled after that), but he looked just fine against Primo Ramos in a rebound 10-rounder and then better than fine - in fact, excellent - against unbeaten Aaron Davis Sr. & Luis Gabriel García to become a 2-division world champion and make a successful defense of the WBA title at welterweight, and even still in a non-title stay-busy tuneup with green but tough southpaw Ernie Chávez. In this stretch from late 1990 until early 1992 he was every bit as sharp, fleet-handed, and fluid offensively and on front-foot defense as when he was surgically dissecting guys like Howard Davis Jr., Buddy McGirt and Jaime Balboa in the previous decade. It wasn't until his second WBA title defense that signs of diminishing returns on Taylor's prime began to emerge, surviving a disastrous first half in which Glenwood "The Real Beast" Brown dropped him twice, and scraping out a UD. Cracks of vulnerability there may indeed have been, yet smashing those fissures into yawning canyons would take a special talent. Along came Terry Norris, who IMO deserves more credit than JC Superstar for the ultimate ruination of Taylor, putting a violent punctuation mark on his prime once and for all.



    IMO even the Glenwood Brown version of Taylor would never lose to a mediocrity like Crisanto España, who knocked him out in eight rounds five months after the Norris destruction. España could whack, but was basic as hell and I can't envision him beating an early 90's TNT without his chin having been softened up in Terrible fashion. Of course we can posit all sorts of what-if scenarios had Richard Steele not stirred up so much controversy in the waning moments of Taylor vs. Chávez I. Had the last bell rung, and Taylor gotten the split decision he was deprived of, would he still have tromped up to 147lbs in a huff, or would he continue to reign at super lightweight for a time? Would the confidence of defeating Chávez and rightfully bagging that glittery prize of his "zero" rather than his confidence being rattled by coming so agonizingly close have meant that he didn't feel the need to resort to brawling and having mild scares against the likes of Brown? I couldn't tell ya - but what I do know is that jumping up to light middleweight and taking on Norris was an epic miscalculation on the part of chief handlers/co-trainers George Benton & Lou Duva. This matchmaking was a million kinds of "all wrong" for Taylor - who in truth was no welter, although he did manage to fare quite well there on account of his speed, power, and skill - as the naturally much larger and devastatingly hard counter-bombing (and himself quite fast) Norris was always going to mangle him and cut short his peak scrapping days. :shakehead:


    ...and then after those consecutive brutal losses to Norris and España, of course it would seem "the right time" for Chávez to bother giving him a rematch...draining him down to 140lbs again, to boot. :rolleyes:Kind of a despicably transparent punk move by "La Leyenda", if you think about it.
     
  2. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Tyler went away. Tyler's gone. Staff Member

    352,998
    29,699
    Sportsbook:
    2,542
    Nov 30, 2006
    So to answer my titular question, the precise moment could be called that first knockdown scored in the 4th round...when Taylor was already in a blanked-out points hole and seems with his body language to have realized that he could realistically neither outmaneuver & outbox nor come forward and out-slug Norris - or really, you could say the opening bell. Or when the fight was signed, or conceived.

    Not, as is popularly believed, the final minute of round twelve of JCC 1. :deal:
     
    expljose likes this.
  3. Sphillips

    Sphillips Active Member Full Member

    1,222
    1,051
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Nov 14, 2017
    Espana a ‘mediocrity’?

    Nah.
     
  4. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Tyler went away. Tyler's gone. Staff Member

    352,998
    29,699
    Sportsbook:
    2,542
    Nov 30, 2006
    Stacked with elites like JCC, Taylor, and Norris?

    Absolutely. I think he's clearly in the bottom 5-10 welterweight titlists of all time, h2h.

    He was a big lanky (natural 154lber really) southpaw with some pop, his time's equivalent of a Jamie Munguía. What am I missing?
     
  5. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

    20,485
    1,854
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jul 15, 2008

    Pretty terrific post ... not sure but maybe the demons of the Chavez loss led to his outside of the ring drugs and a deterioration of skills over time ..
     
  6. greynotsoold

    greynotsoold Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,024
    797
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Aug 17, 2011
    He fought Taylor from an orthodox stance, I'm almost certain, and against Quartey too.
     
  7. Ph33rknot

    Ph33rknot El gran campeón Mexicano Full Member

    3,258
    1,105
    Sportsbook:
    100
    Mar 5, 2012
    think it was the physical more than the mental he was killing it then stopped
     
  8. SHADAPBLAD

    SHADAPBLAD Lost all my bets Full Member

    636
    483
    Sportsbook:
    500
    Feb 15, 2017
    I'm not sure exactly what you're suggesting here, and I feel like it's not by accident. Chavez I might not have totally ruined Taylor as a fighter, but it definitely took a toll. He wasnt as consistently fast and his timing seemed off sometimes. You sort of admit it yourself by claiming Taylor was more prone to brawling, possibly due to feelings of inadequacy stemming from the Chavez fight. Had Steele not stopped the fight, a rematch would be almost certain due to the controversy (of the winner being down and almost out with seconds to go) and money. And I think Chavez would have gotten to Taylor earlier. If Taylor continued to fight at welter how would he do against Whitaker, De La Hoya, Trinidad. Even Maurice Blocker would be a tough ask for a 140lber without much power. I think Taylor did the best he could
     
    Balder likes this.
  9. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Tyler went away. Tyler's gone. Staff Member

    352,998
    29,699
    Sportsbook:
    2,542
    Nov 30, 2006
    Literally what does this even mean? :lol: :dunno

    Uh...yeah pal, my overall point was that however much Julio took out of Meldrick the first time, it pales in comparison to what Terry took, which IMO is exponentially more and halted Meldrick from being a viable force at 140/147 for some years to come (til at least say the mid-late 90s)...don't think I was the least bit circumspect in making that point, either. So...yeah. Not sure what YOU'RE talking about, and not really bothered about whether or not it was an "accident". :sisi1 If you disagree with the premise that Taylor was shaping up to be a decent ww from 90-92 that's one thing, but whatever other confused insinuation was in your post, nah, not working out, come correct next time
     
  10. lloydturnip

    lloydturnip Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,663
    1,040
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Sep 5, 2016
    Looked awesome against Davis .I thought he was.back better than ever.The Norris fight was a stupid idea bigger harder hiitting nearly as fast .bad move
     
    The Morlocks and IntentionalButt like this.
  11. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Tyler went away. Tyler's gone. Staff Member

    352,998
    29,699
    Sportsbook:
    2,542
    Nov 30, 2006
    Really no clue what Benton and Duva were thinking of. :buitre:This couldn't have ended well.
     
    The Morlocks likes this.
  12. SHADAPBLAD

    SHADAPBLAD Lost all my bets Full Member

    636
    483
    Sportsbook:
    500
    Feb 15, 2017
    If that is your point then I cant disagree. But I do believe Taylor achieved all he could under the circumstances pre Norris
     
    IntentionalButt likes this.
  13. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    26,649
    4,046
    Sportsbook:
    2,976
    Feb 11, 2005
    Taylor's post Chavez fights at WW:

    * A title win over a Superman Davis who wasn't that far removed from a brtual war with Mark Breland and whose reticence to throw more than a handful of punches a round put him at a stylistic disadvantage against MT.
    * An up from the canvas (twice) win over a relatively ordinary Glenwood Brown
    * A split decision over an ordinary, run of the mill contender in Luis Garcia. Taylor spent a good portion whiffing at air and was awarded a decision that imo could have gone the other way.

    Conclusion: He wasn't the fighter he had been, and looked to be on borrowed time. Getting obliterated by Terry Norris didn't help, but I honestly think that if he had faced Espana next without moving up in weight, he was probably getting beaten anyway.

    Espana represented a clear step up from that lot. He had good power, good timing (which beats the diminished speed of MT) and was skilled enough to use his significant edge in height and reach to beat that version of Taylor 12 times out of 10.

    Fact is, JCC handed Taylor a beating in the latter portion of their first go-round, turned his face into an abstract portion and had him swallowing a gallon of blood. Then he put him down hard in the waning seconds of the fight and secured what I consider a justifiable stoppage. Taylor was still a good, fast fighter after that...just not as fast, and definitely not as good.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
    ETM, Sphillips, JohnThomas1 and 2 others like this.
  14. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

    7,266
    2,800
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Mar 19, 2012
    Chavez took the biggest piece of him by far. Over 12 rounds Julio gave him a brutal lesson in infighting. He literally broke Taylor's face and had him swalling blood most of the fight.
    Just the fact that Duva ran him up to 47 immediately suggests they wanted no part of an immediate rematch.
    Anyway Norris dropped him a couple of times in a relatively short fight. I'm sure all the fights played a part but it makes little to no sense to say it was mostly Norris.
     
    richdanahuff likes this.
  15. RingKing

    RingKing Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,593
    78
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Feb 21, 2008
    LMFAO. A bunch of mumbo jumbo about nothing. It probably took you two days to come up with this **** fable and it is mostly incoherent garbage. Here, let me solve the puzzle for you in less than two minutes. JCC took his soul that night and Taylor was never the same again. End of story.
     
    ETM and Saad54 like this.

Share This Page