Men you'd take to stop Lyle?

Chuvalo was a borderline professional loser, Foreman could hit hard and got to hit him often finishing him isn’t impressive why would it be? He was durable but easy to find which is why his face got turned to hamburger - he didn’t even KO him he caused structural damage, was it the same eye area / side of the face as Frazier? It’s not a feat to find Chuvalo so often you stop him on damage to his face, feat would be a KO, Chuvalo was near the end of his career and had YEARS of mileage on that face of his. I’m not fully reading your mega post no offence intended because it can be at times just a lot of amusing but sort of irrelevant filler. Perealta is a good win for a green fighter but not proof he’s an “ATG” finisher and “ring cutter” why would it be? Actually LOL Peralta might be his ONLY feat at beating someone who could box a bit… didn’t see it (ring cutting) much in that bout at all - credit to Foreman he was young, new to the game but that’s as close as he ever got to being successful over someone who wasn’t dead legged.

 

And for the record @Journeyman92

"I didn’t really plan what happened that night. But when a fighter gets in the ring, he has to adjust according to the conditions he faces. Against George, the ring was slow. Dancing all night, my legs would have got tired. And George was following me too close, cutting off the ring. In the first round, I used more energy staying away from him than he used chasing me. I was tireder than I should have been with fourteen rounds to go. I knew I couldn’t keep dancing, because by the middle of the fight I’d be really tired and George would get me. So between rounds, I decided to do what I did in training when I got tired. It was something Archie Moore used to do. Archie was a smart fighter. He fought till he was as old as I am now, and he did it by conserving energy. He let younger men take their shots and blocked everything in scientific fashion. And then, when they got tired, Archie would attack."—Ali in Muhammad Ali: His Life and Times.

"But in the second half of the round George is executing what he’s practiced for months. He’s cutting the ring off and forcing me to move six steps to his two, and he’s doing it better than anyone I’ve been up against. I’ve had fighters chase me—most fighters chase me—but I make them match me step for step. George is the first fighter to consistently cut me off."—The Greatest: My Own Story .. though it has that slightly fictional tone.

Ali seems to repeat the same thing majority of the time: he had to go to the ropes as much as he wanted to. Will gladly put more quotes up.

 

George Chuvalo was #5 annually in 1964, #3 in 1965, #8 in 1966, #4 in 1968, and #7 in 1970, the year Foreman stopped him, and he had that somewhat bizzare upset of Quarry some eight months prior to that bout, and the second Ali bout ahead of him ("I thought I could drop him, but I couldn't. He took all my best shots and he hurt me with a couple of hard rights and a hook."—per Ali.) He was one of the toughest gatekeepers slash fringe contenders to ever lace them. The speed at which you call him a borderline professional loser mirrors the almost vendetta like jabs at the likes of Norton.

The bout was stopped after Foreman first landed that jab at will, then jarred Chuvalo with a hook and began unloading on the ropes. Sure, George thought he could endure it, but referees have their jobs as well. He described the Frazier bout in this manner: Chuvalo later said his right eye was injured when he fought Archie Ray on June 22, 1967. Chuvalo said Ray's head accidentally collided into his cheek bone. "My eye was swelling up, and I went back into the gym and started sparring too soon, and my eye kept blowing up in the gym," Chuvalo explained. "So when I fought Joe, I was damaged goods."

 

His upset of Quarry was BS for a start lol and Ali didn't stop lot's of people, It wasn't his game, he was an aged guy who won some lost some and had a lot of mileage on a face that had been hit a lot something had to give and it happened to be a monstrusly hard punching Foreman teeing off on his compromised face. If he was a great "finisher" he'd have got Young, he didn't it would've been his only feat and I might listen when people act like he's on Louis's level at finishing someone. As it stands he couldn't pull out a finish on anyone difficult to finish expect Chuvalo? he hit hard we already knew that, those things are not the same and he has 0 good feats for cutting the ring UNLIKE Louis also.

 

Keep up the great posts mate. It’s refreshing and very enjoyable to read actual, well informed, intelligent posts/analysis’ such as your own.

 

As to Lyle, the actual primary subject of this thread, I don’t see how he was necessarily vulnerable and prone to fold like a cheap suit (= be stopped) against fighters who possessed power.

 

Cheers.

And we're on good terms with Journ, saying just in case.

 

When are we saying Chuvalo's prime began and ended, by the way? Seems relevant to the discussion you guys are having.

@Journeyman92 @Rollin

 

He had his mileage, being 33 year old and debuting in '56, but at the same time had a good bout with Ali ahead of him two years down the road, and was ranked around the time greener Foreman stopped him.

 

Back in the 60s finishing just before the
Frazier caved his head in, in 67 GC debut in 1956 he was a face first, punching bag Chisora type who got hit a lot by 1970 he’d had A LOT of mileage and it’s small wonder he lost via facial injury (not KO) Quarry fight was BS Quarry was chilling and got up but the ref waved it off Chuvalo did nothing after Ali 1 besides lose to good opponents - after Foreman who’d he beat before and after Ali 2? He was a bag with legs most of his career who ran over guys we’ve never heard over or shot / so-so guys - he beat ancient Cleveland Williams in 1971 lol.

 

We are not, not until you admit you’re a false prophet and a Foreman Mafia made guy - but in all seriousness we are fine, I LOVE debating with you, you post over my head because you’re smarter then me and I think a lot of the time I miss your points… which is why I ask you to condense it for me I genuinely get lost, I usually also post when I’m walking my dog one handed lol.

 

Agreed x2 @Rollin is one of the good ones, nice guy, great poster.

 

You’re welcome. It was a compliment to you.

 

Here is where you are wrong. I'm just the consigliere of the Foreman mafia. Our Godfather is yet to reveal himself.