Men you'd take to stop Lyle?

Sure but I’m not 100% re how you’re necessarily rating his chin.

Ron was 34 yo, never stopped prior to and 30-2-1? going into the Ali fight.

Unquestionably, after sleep walking through the first 2/3 or so of the fight, Ali picked it up and did hit Ron with a terrific right hand to start Lyle on his way.

Though not a puncher per se, Ali had also previously KO’d/stopped the very durable Bonavena and Foreman for the first and only times in their careers - and that coverage includes Foreman’s second career when he was never dropped - and yes, without reserve, George did nominate Lyle as having hit him the hardest over George’s 2 careers.

Besides Lyle himself, Foreman, Shavers and Cooney were the premiere punchers of the era. Top 3 however you want to order them.

That Lyle fell to Foreman after a punch for punch brawl, after inflicting his own heavy damage, isn’t a mark against his durability -

Frazier fell to Foreman twice but it was the only time Joe ever fell in such emphatic fashion. Foreman was a very durable fighter and huge puncher through multiple eras.

To say that Young KD’d Foreman without due qualifications is highly remiss.

It was in the final round and, prior to that KD, Foreman’s legs were already betraying him even without George being hit - he was absolutely exhausted - as we all know and that obvious fact was further proven by his dressing room collapse and vision/hallucination due to severe dehydration.

Back to Ronnie. Lyle also engaged in a brutal give and take punch out with Shavers, including suffering a vicious KD but Lyle still emerged from the fire and smoke victorious.

For obvious reasons, later KO losses to Lyn Ball and Gerry Cooney when Lyle was 38/39 (actually closer to 40 yo in the latter case) aren’t valid counters to Lyles more prime durability.

 

it also about could they get him or would they be heated first … Lyle would not stand there like a slap contest … I think Lyle could likely have beaten Coetzee or Bruno but not Witherspoon but Tim had moments when he stunk out a place so it would have to be a focused Witherspoon.

 

Fair opinions but I’ve already given mine more or less re the fights in which he was KO’d/stopped.

Bonavena and Foreman were very durable and no one did to them what Ali did, though, granted, the Lyle stoppage involved a faster turn around - but again, Ali could drop the single big shots from time to time - the left hook that dropped Ringo for the first KD was titanic - and it was pretty much all she wrote after that - and the last right hand Ali landed on Foreman for the KO was an absolute beauty.

Anyway, after the Ali fight, Lyle withstood super puncher Shavers and dished his own fire power for the KO….and just 4 months after that, he went in against another of the top 3 punchers in George Foreman.

Getting hurt/KD’d are one thing - but actually being KO’d/stopped are another. For a more extreme example, the times that Patterson was hurt/KD’d would seem to imply far more KO/stoppage losses than Floyd did actually suffer.

Just for the record and not to take from your point, Ali went 15 and then 12 vs Chuvalo - Chuvalo noting after their rematch that Ali was that much lesser a fighter the second time around.

Foreman hit Chuvalo hard and often, and then when he buckled his knees, he wailed on Chuvalo, throwing everything but the kitchen sink at him but Chuvalo still held his feet. I can’t think of too many fighters if any remaining upright after that barrage.

It was a rightful stoppage but it would’ve been interesting if it had continued to get a gage on how much Foreman might’ve depleted himself due to his intense exertions. I wouldn’t necessary count Chuvalo out against the aforementioned guys in respect of him being stopped.

So we have Chuvalo only being stopped by Frazier and very much due to a significant injury and later stopped by Foreman.

No, I know you’re not necessarily trying to minimise Lyle as a fighter - and in all possibility the fighters mentioned could possibly stop Ron…but then, Lyle wasn’t as vulnerable as is being suggested and if Ron is firing back in kind, they too could find themselves at the short end.

For mine, Lyle could get lulled into the other guys type of fight - but if pushed sufficiently, Lyle could really let go with his own hands - as I think we can see in both the Shavers and Foreman fights at least.

 

I think Lyle sucked compared to a lot of fighters, I think it’s hysterical that he took Foreman life and death and that guys upheld his reputation for that fact… but NOW they’ve turned to “it- it doesn’t count he was sad…” that is now that Lyle is just “a guy” - Lyles chin was pretty good nothing wrong with it, wasn’t Chuvalo, Pinklon or Ali it was a solid chin like Foreman, Louis, Tyson nothing special, nothing bad, not a weakness.

 

Weaver was stopped 7 times in 6 rounds or less you can pick and choose what results you want to count the fact he was stopped numerous times early.

Even Williams was on the verge of stopping Weaver early barring a left hook out of nowhere.

Weaver was a slow starter and can be vulnerable early simple as that so it's not a forgone conclusion Weaver wins this fight.

Lyle could bomb out Weaver in the first 6 rounds or Weaver could stop Lyle late it's not a fight i would bet on put it that way.

Bruno may have better skill the issue is he has poor recuperative powers so making Bruno a favourite over a puncher when anytime Bruno gets hurt he freezes likes a deer in the headlights seems a bit strange to me that you'd be that confident of Bruno winning.

No Bonecrusher does not have a better showcase of skill he was a crude brawler.

Knockout against Ruddock ? i think you mean "knockdown" Bonecrusher got stopped by Ruddock.

As i said it's two big punchers could go either way there's no real reason Bonecrusher would be a considerable favourite over Lyle.

Page stopped Coetzee in a round that was 4 minutes long.

Tillis was also stopped by Thomas KO 8, Witherspoon KO 1.

Page hurt Witherspoon ? i just remember him laying on the ropes losing most of the rounds not doing much.

Page/Bonecrusher were both shot fighters at point.

It amazes you that i think it's debatable that Page beats Lyle ? the same Page who in his prime lost every round to Trevor Berbick ? was lucky to get two decisions over George Chaplin ? Not to mention being out hustled by someone like David Bey ?

Yes i do think Page is overrated somewhat he was talented but he didn't have that real grit needed as a professional.

Do i think it's possible that if the stars aligned and Page was 100 percent that he could beat Lyle ? yes. But i don't think it's a forgone conclusion that Page necessarily stops Lyle far from it i could easily see the fight going the distance.

Thomas had a solid right hand but i wouldn't say his power was frightening.

Could he stop Lyle ? possibly but i wouldn't say it's a certainty i could see a points win aswell.

Far more durable is debatable based on what ?

Coetzee was also a bit robotic and a stand up straight type of fighter.

Again this is a fight that is not a foregone conclusion.

I don't overrate the 70s ? nor do i underrate the 80s ?

I've been the one who normally sings the praises of the 80s Heavyweights saying they're underrated why don't you look at this recent post i made on this thread below.

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...best-heavyweight-era-in-history.737802/page-2

It's not the fact that i don't think the 80s Heavyweights couldn't beat Lyle it's just you're making out it's a forgone conclusion that not only do they beat him but they all stop him aswell.

And if anything i think that's maybe you overrating the era somewhat.

 

Cracking post, DP.

 

First of all to make any claim in such a definitive manner classifies you as a borderline minor leaguer here as anything is possible ... that aside ... I don't know ... maybe being dominated by iron chinned Bug John Tate or Ko'ed by often flattened Mike Weaver or looking so so against Thomas, Page and Snipes ... Who exactly did Coetzee, who I liked BTW, defeat other than a flat out amateur party animal in Spinks and an equally drugged out Dokes ? Bruno was worse ... who exactly did he defeat that was rolled in on a wheel chair ? I feel Lyle was much , much mentally and physically stronger than either of those two ..

 

TBH the only ones who are a sure bet versus Lyle are Tyson and Holmes evidently. I concur both of them at their peak beat Lyle handily.

Weaver, Smith, Witherspoon, Bruno, Coetzee, Page, Thomas? All those guys have a decent chance, but they are not a lock. Depending the circunstances I can give them something between 70% - 30% chances versus Lyle.

In a fight series against those guys, Lyle probably wins half and loses half.

 

Has Usyk been mentioned yet?
I am positive prime Usyk outboxes and outpunches the heck out of Lyle and gets a late stoppage.

 

Lyle was stopped only twice in his prime by 2 Heavyweights who are considered ATG's

Foreman would pretty much stop 95 percent of any Heavyweight in history if they stood trading punches with him. So that's a plus for Lyle's durability that he was able to stand toe to toe with Foreman and almost come out on top. If anything Lyle was stopped more due to being exhausted the punches Foreman finished off Lyle with in the corner were nothing punches, and it was just Foreman's sheer will of just keeping throwing punches that got him over that hurdle.

So for me that's a plus for Lyle's durability.

So it's not a forgone conclusion then yes ?

So your logic for favouring Bruno is because he gave good account of himself in losing efforts.

It's not wise to be confident of a fighters success based on losing efforts and let's be real Bruno has a very thin resume and has very poor recuperative powers which are not good traits to have vs a puncher.

Lyle could absolutely be able to stop an out of shape disinterested Witherspoon who wanted out of his contract with Don King.

Lyle could stop Weaver yes but it's not a forgone conclusion just like it's not a forgone conclusion Lyle beats Weaver that's my point. You're making out that these are slam dunk fights in favour of these fighters over Lyle and they really ain't

You stated earlier Bonecrusher showcased better skills and this is just not correct Bonecrusher was always a crude brawler.

You are joking right ? the fight was competitive and most scored it pretty evenly and it was close to a draw ?

This is just flat out wrong.

It was a comprehensive points win for Berbick who swarmed/bullied Page and didn't allow him to get set. I think i scored it 8-2 for Berbick last time i watched it and 2 of the judges also had it 8-2 aswell.

A peak in shape Page lost to Berbick so what are you talking about ? he lost to Berbick in 1982 just 1 fight later he beat Tillis which is a win you've been hyping up.

So you're telling me Page wasn't peak vs Berbick ? but was peak vs Tillis just 1 fight later ?

Far more durable is debatable i wouldn't say there's much between them in durability.

It would be down to who gasses first in a tough grueling fight.

Coetzee faded in the last few rounds vs Thomas in a 10 rounder and may of been stopped had it been 12.

Coetzee also faded against Weaver.

And of course got bombed out by Bruno.

Again i wouldn't say it's a forgone conclusion either way.

I don't hold Lyle to a high standard at all he wouldn't be in my top 50 Heavyweights of all time and H2H i don't rate him super high either.

I also don't rate Young super highly i just think stylistically he's a problem for Foreman.

That doesn't mean i think Young is a great fighter or he's anywhere near as great as Foreman. But boxing is all about styles and i think Young's style is troubling for Foreman.

You can believe anything you want but you're making out these are slam dunk forgone conclusions that they would all stop Lyle and i don't see it personally.

In a realistic scenario Lyle could probably win atleast half of the these fights on any given night.

 

First ones to come to mind… Wladimir, Vitali, Tua and this guy…

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Man that’s a WICKED shot. One of the nastiest straight lefts I’ve seen.