Lebell was not the first by a long, long shot. I knew that these fights existed, but it appears that the Japanese and Westerners basically institutionalized them as a spectacle by the late 1910's. From http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_svinth_0801.htm: See also http://www.e-budo.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-34194.html and http://www.bullshido.org/Merikan for quick references.
Interesting read. Thanks for posting. So, in other words, just fix it so 'Whitey' can win. Is that the birth of professional wrestling?
In fairness, a professional lightweight wrestling champ from this era declared himself the "world judo champion" (despite lacking a background in judo) and defended his "title" against the judoka that the Kodokan sent against him. [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_Santel[/ame] The Western Merikan fighters suffered from the "strikers vs. grapplers" problem more than anything else.
Was Ad Santel a white guy? I love your posts, and the information you bring. I respect you as much, if not more than, any other poster. Please, don't think I'm talking down to you. There is nothing damning in the statements above. I just don't think it sounds like the talk of someone with a simple stylistic difference. Was is striker vs grappler? Or, was it white striker vs nonwhite grappler?
Yes. Of course not. American sailors were clearly racists, and clearly wanted the white guys to win. My point was only that Westerners during this period were not so uniformly unsuccessful in combat sports that they always needed to cheat. Their grapplers did just fine. (The Japanese in that era also had a nasty habit of fixing fights for "their" guy -- and still did as recently as PRIDE.) As a sidenote, one of the sites I posted claims that using "Jap" during the 1920s was considered a non-racist abbreviation like "Aussie", and only acquired its racist connotation later. I don't know one way or another, but it doesn't matter much. I'd be willing to stake a lot of money that American sailors were a pretty racist bunch regardless. A bit of everything, probably. White vs. nonwhite, Japanese vs. American, judo vs. boxing... The racial element probably predominated. Then again, we still see a lot of anti-MMA, pro-boxing trolling on this forum :yep . . .
Thanks. And as always, I'm happy to return the compliment. Without you guys, ESB's MMA section would be a lot less interesting. And certainly less history-conscious. :good
Don't be so self deprecating. You know good and well its got worse...I'm just glad one of the wiser heads like you is back.
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