Mexican and Mexican Americans are the most exciting fighters on the planet!

No, your criteria just blows, and I'm sure your list does too.

Resume is the big key to ranking greatness. Skills/abilities is not a big criteria... besides ring generalship, defensive, specialty, and supernatural ability aren't held on some high pedestal. How the hell do you evaluate supernatural ability anyway?

If that's the case, I guess Locche would rank in your top 5?

 

Some of the greatest black fighters imo weren't defensive masters like Floyd or Whitaker. Robinson, Liston, Ray Leonard, Hearns, Pryor, Foreman, Frazier, Tyson, etc... There's been way more great offensive black boxers than defensive.

 

Subjective evaluation of skill and talent are hardly the important criteria to ranking a fighter. It's what they do in their era, who they beat, how, how good that era is, etc.

 

I think his point is that relative to Mexicans and perhaps white fighters (An assumption) that there is. Doesn't really make a difference either way.

 

:good

 

Oh if I doubt how they have been I wouldn't be discussing them here, if they didn't exist(so to say) why would I or anyone else discuss them and why would a thread related to them go as many pages as this?

My point was based on their general fighting style and olympic accomplishments which affects their general fighting style. When I see the majority of Mexican fans, on this forum, call other defensive guys ***gots for using movement and avoiding punches while hailing guys for being punch drunk for taking them then you know some people don't know the sport they claim to love. This sport comes in many different flavors, the US has delivered many different flavors of fighting styles of their own, Tyson was aggressive, Ali a mover, Liston aggressive, Robinson a mover, Foreman aggressive, Fraizer...etc. The British have provided many different flavors as well. The Mexican fans, as we all know, don't appreciate defense in boxing, they appreciate toe to toe brawls which is ONE flavor in this sport. Didn't Barrera get boo'd and **** on for using defense and showing another dimension in the rematch with Juarez?, that's only one recent example. That's what I'm trying to point out but did so this time in proper fashion when I get a proper response.

 

Yes they are important to rank a fighter, how do you expect them to do anything in their era if they don't show skill against top opposition?, you think they will make it against top opposition without displaying their way of skill in whatever way it might be?. How good an era is all based on skill as well, how will they be considered good to the media then reported to the public that they're good if there's no skill in there?

 

So your point is against Mexican fans and not the fighters? Or a reflection on how Mexicans love wars and that's in a way why Mexicans fight the way they do?

 

I think the MOST important thing for an atg is DID THEY DEFEAT THE BEST OF THEIR TIME. I don't care how many dimensions and skills you possess, could you beat the best of your era? Were you good enough to match up with the best of other eras based on what you showed in the ring.

Great "one dimensional" fighters actually had more dimensions than they appeared because they could adapt to whatever they're opponent offered without drastically altering their style. They simply made the adjustments needed to get the win. It's almost impossible to be one dimensional in the purest sense of the term to be considered atg....a closer look will reveal more subtle dimensions to a set approach.

 

Because what they do shows that. I don't have another big criteria (Maybe a minor one) that's solely judging their abilities. If a fighter sucks on paper but goes on to do remarkable things he's a remarkable fighter. Fighters have X factors, and factors often have the intangibles that often prove more important than the skills.

Marciano was hugely criticized in his time as being clumsy and unskilled, as he is a lot today. It doesn't mean I drop him 10 spots on my Heavyweight list, nor does it mean he isn't among my top 50-60 greatest fighters list.

Unless we're talking of some H2H or skewed list. If it's judging a fighters greatness, it's not very important.

 

Easy, check out guys like RJJ, Leonard, Ali(in his prime), a good example is how Ali a heavyweight was able to move around in the ring like he was a middleweight, not all heavyweights possess that kind of supernatural ability. RJJ's reflexes, Leonard's general ability, will, how he showed serious skills to adapt in his fight with Hearns..etc, the examples are endless. If you think it blows then go ahead and blow it yourself, it doesn't matter to me really.

How can you have a good resume without having the ability to carry you there?, seriously. Do you know what style is in boxing?, I have my doubts. If resume is everything then Calzaghe must be in your top 5?, he beat RJJ and Hopkins. You need to also find places for McBride and Danny Williams, they beat Mike Tyson.

 

Exactly, while many can write them off as being unskilled or fighting in a weak era. Making all kinds of excuses for why they don't understand how this fighter fought on this caliber and was this successful. People do it all the time, and it doesn't give you the right to try knocking them and saying they aren't ATGs. I mean you can, but it's not a truthful or fair assessment. It's overly subjective.

 

What they do and how they do it is based on fighting style and ability, not resume. You can't have the resume if you don't have serious ability.

 

What Olympic accomplishments the US boxing gets smoked in the Olympics?

By the way Lopez and Canto were never booed.

 

Or Chavez for instance, who could take someone like Taylor and make Taylor fight a Chavez fight. He even almost got away with doing it to DLH in the eighth round of the second fight. Chavez' brilliance was in taking away his opponent's natural advantages and breaking them down to just what was there on the inside. Also his inside fighting is still the classic text to study on the subject. On the inside it was all Chavez with his accuracy and head movement and awareness.