Mexican War - who is the better fighter?

VARG · Nov 29, 2008

D-MAC said:

In the last few years we have become used to talking about the Mexican Holy Trinity of Erik Morales, Marco Antonio Barrera and Juan Manuel Marquez. The latter is quite a new entry into a group previously made up of just the duo of El Terrible and The Baby Faced Assasin. In an attempt to throw a couple of spanners in the works I want you to tell me how Juan Manuel compares with two other modern Mexican ring warriors; the first is Jose Luis Castillo, and the second is his brother Rafael. Results mean a lot in this business, so here is quick run down of what I think are the 10 best wins and draws from the trio:

Juan Manuel Marquez

1 - Joel Casamayor TKO11
2 - Manny Pacquiao D12
3 - Marco Antonio Barrera UD12
4 - Rocky Juarez UD12
5 - Derrick Gainer TD7
6 - Manuel Medina TKO7
7 - Victor Polo UD12
8 - Robbie Peden RTD10
9 - Agapito Sanchez UD12
10 - Orlando Salido UD12

Jose Luis Castillo

1 - Diego Corrales KO4
2 - Julio Diaz TKO10
3 - Joel Casamayor SD12
4 - Juan Lazcano UD12
5 - Cesar Bazan TKO6
6 - Stevie Johnston D12
7 - Stevie Johnston UD12
8 - Herman Ngoudjo UD12
9 - Rolando Reyes
10 - Steve Quinonez UD10

Rafael Marquez

1 - Israel Vasquez RTD7
2 - Silence Mabuza RTD9
3 - Silence Mabuza TKO4
4 - Mauricio Pastrana TKO8
5 - Mauricio Pastrano UD12
6 - Heriberto Ruiz KO3
7 - Tim Austin TKO8
8 - Mark "Too Sharp" Johnson TKO8
9 - Mark "Too Sharp" Johnson SD10
10 - Gerardo Espinoza TKO4

NB: The results in bold are what I consider key results; they are in no particluar order (please feel free to question any obvious ommisions).

The results thing is just a general guideline (If any of you think Marquez deserved a win against Pac, then this might be cancelled out by others who think Castillo won his first fight with Mayweather and Rafael won the third fight with Vasquez). This is not a hate thread aimed at Juan Manuel Marquez (he is one of my favourite boxers); I just want to know, out of the three, who you think has had the most impressive career so far, and if on reflection Rafael Marquez and Jose Luis Castillo should be ranked up there alongside Juan Manuel Marquez?

Opinions?
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It's hard to say...

I think Rafa is clearly at the bottom...my mind is scrambled as to who is at the top between JMM and JLC

JLC arguably won against PBF and JMM arguably won against Pacquiao in the first match-up

One of JLC's victories against Chico was because he couldnt make weight, but the fight carried out anyway because Chico (RIP) was a warrior and wanted to prove that he can win regardless...well that wasnt the case and he proved that weight was very much an issue

JMM hasn't really done much besides lose to Pacquiao and beat Casa (who in my mind is somewhat dwindling towards being shot if not already)...he's a gifted fighter and a dodged one...but hasn't achieved that All time high...but neither has JLC...his biggest fights he lost mainly so in Chico I, PBF II, and Hatton (he was pretty shot in that fight)...

I'm going with the order you have...it was hard to really stick with, but its an order that seems to be the most logical...seeing as how JMM still has some room to grow and do great things and JLC is on the twilight end

Who's my favorite of the bunch...JLC no contest!

pauliemayweathe · Nov 29, 2008

D-MAC said:

In the last few years we have become used to talking about the Mexican Holy Trinity of Erik Morales, Marco Antonio Barrera and Juan Manuel Marquez. The latter is quite a new entry into a group previously made up of just the duo of El Terrible and The Baby Faced Assasin. In an attempt to throw a couple of spanners in the works I want you to tell me how Juan Manuel compares with two other modern Mexican ring warriors; the first is Jose Luis Castillo, and the second is his brother Rafael. Results mean a lot in this business, so here is quick run down of what I think are the 10 best wins and draws from the trio:

Juan Manuel Marquez

1 - Joel Casamayor TKO11
2 - Manny Pacquiao D12
3 - Marco Antonio Barrera UD12
4 - Rocky Juarez UD12
5 - Derrick Gainer TD7
6 - Manuel Medina TKO7
7 - Victor Polo UD12
8 - Robbie Peden RTD10
9 - Agapito Sanchez UD12
10 - Orlando Salido UD12

Jose Luis Castillo

1 - Diego Corrales KO4
2 - Julio Diaz TKO10
3 - Joel Casamayor SD12
4 - Juan Lazcano UD12
5 - Cesar Bazan TKO6
6 - Stevie Johnston D12
7 - Stevie Johnston UD12
8 - Herman Ngoudjo UD12
9 - Rolando Reyes
10 - Steve Quinonez UD10

Rafael Marquez

1 - Israel Vasquez RTD7
2 - Silence Mabuza RTD9
3 - Silence Mabuza TKO4
4 - Mauricio Pastrana TKO8
5 - Mauricio Pastrano UD12
6 - Heriberto Ruiz KO3
7 - Tim Austin TKO8
8 - Mark "Too Sharp" Johnson TKO8
9 - Mark "Too Sharp" Johnson SD10
10 - Gerardo Espinoza TKO4

NB: The results in bold are what I consider key results; they are in no particluar order (please feel free to question any obvious ommisions).

The results thing is just a general guideline (If any of you think Marquez deserved a win against Pac, then this might be cancelled out by others who think Castillo won his first fight with Mayweather and Rafael won the third fight with Vasquez). This is not a hate thread aimed at Juan Manuel Marquez (he is one of my favourite boxers); I just want to know, out of the three, who you think has had the most impressive career so far, and if on reflection Rafael Marquez and Jose Luis Castillo should be ranked up there alongside Juan Manuel Marquez?

Opinions?
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i think castillos best fight was PBF 1 and cas...the corrales fight signified that he is a jerkoff...hardly his best moment

pauliemayweathe · Nov 29, 2008

brickfists said:

morales is better than them all end of the story.

now why you or anybody else mentions marquez name when it comes to this or the p4p list is beyond belife the man has done nothing to deserve being mentioned next to such legends as morales and barrera and is no way near the top 10 p4p let alone number ****ing 2 the only reason he is ranked there ahead of such legends who hav actually achieved great things like calzaghe and b-hop is because he is a golden boy fighter and pacman is number 1.

if he wasnt signed to biased ass goldenboy then he wouldnt be ranked in the top 10 p4p cause he dont deserve it
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u have no respect for a guy who got floored 3 times and came back to get a draw then lost a split to PACMAN? not in the top 10???

bandeedo · Nov 29, 2008

brickfists said:

that maybe true but you can hav all the talent in the world if u dont perform and get the results then it dont matter.

the fact is he lost to pacman and barrera and his best win is against a 37yr old casa who was clearly past it. im not saying he is a bad fighter but to think he is the best in the world and hav the only organization that means something back him up just pisses me off.

**** goldenboy and **** jmm
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why even watch the fights, just go to boxrec and you know it all. you have no problem with pac being p4p #1 but can't understand why the guy who fought him to a standstill is even in the top 10. i searched for the logic and found none.
i think jmm is the best of those mentioned. his performances against the top fighters have shown that he can compete with anyone from 126 to 135. round one of pac 1 is the worst beating he has ever taken, that says a lot especially when you consider that he got up off the floor with a broken nose and proceeded to outbox pac for the majority of the fight.
castillo would be next since many feel that he is the only guy so far to beat floyd and his classics against chico are what makes boxing great.

D-MAC · Nov 29, 2008

GeerGroove said:

Rafael Marquez, Jose Luis Castillo and then Juan Manuel Marquez.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't argue with that (although I have it slightly different).

I think that Rafael and Jose Luis are unfairly downplayed in comparison to Juan Manuel Marquez.

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