Michael Spinks vs. Ingemar Johansson-Who Wins?

Into could definitely hit with that right hand ...he was a legit monster puncher and a natural heavyweight .. that said , Spinks was a much better fighter , had far more game, speed, reach, stamina and I feel would likely stop him later in an interesting, competitive fight ..

 

While I agree, Johannson would probably get stopped in the first by Tyson, I think he'd put up a better effort than Spinks. It's certainly not a high bar.

The much bigger issue for me is not so much his loss to Tyson, but his lack of a HW resume outside of that. Tyson was the only prime fighter he faced. Outside of that, you only have the first win over an over the hill Holmes which I honestly think had far more to do with how bad Holmes was that night, rather than how good Spinks was.

 

Sure, but it's quite probable that if Spinks was fighting back in Ingo's time or prior, he'd have fought at both heavyweight light heavyweight like many of his peers. The heavies that Ingo fought for the most part were cruisers and perhaps light heavyweights with day before weigh ins. Meaning that they were closer in size to the light heavyweights that Spinks defended his title against than the modern sized heavies of even the 80s.

And I see the point about Holmes, but even that version of Holmes was better than many prime contenders of the past, not to mention being a modern sized heavy. I Don't think a win over him ought to be dismissed outright.

 

The body shot he separated Paul Porier's rib cartilage with (that's what Porier himself wrote, although some reports say a fractured rib occurred - in any event, something was bulging out the left side of his torso after) may be the hardest punch Larry Holmes ever delivered. I was watching the live broadcast, and it literally rippled from the left to right side of Porier's torso. Paul had previously competed against Alex Stewart and Tony Tucker, but said that right to the body was the hardest shot anybody ever hit him with. You don't see it on the live camera angle, but you can hear the loud THUD.

 

Holmes was a damn good body puncher. He didn't load up as much earlier on in his career, as he seemed to prioritize speed over power then, but you can see it. I think that his power became much more apparent during his time in the 90's, as you see him flooring a few guys stiff during that section of his career.

 

His Championship Rounds body attack on Carl Williams was key to his clinching his final successful title defense, and much earlier, he used his left hook to the body extensively on Tiger Williams. Ali stopped Blue Lewis on the strength of his body attack, but he certainly did nothing like what Holmes did to Poirier.

Larry sparred with close friend Joe Frazier for Ali-Frazier II and said Joe broke his ribs. Of course one does not spar with Joe Frazier without taking away an understanding of the value of body punching. Norton also learned from sparring with Frazier. (Footage of Joe sparring with Ken in 1970 is on YouTube.)

 

No doubt.

Wasn't Holmes a middleweight at the time of that occurring? If so, that makes me give him a lot more respect for still getting into the ring with Frazier, even if for a simple spar.

 

Was Holmes ever a Middleweight in the Ams? I can’t imagine he was, but at any rate, he turned pro as a Heavy in 1973, & Ali-Frazier II took place in 1974.

 

It's odd. Pretty sure he debuted at heavy, but when Frazier recalled the incident, he said that Holmes was a light heavyweight, then corrected himself to say that Larry was a middleweight, and Holmes didn't correct him. It could be that he was recalling a different occasion where he was sparring Larry, or that he didn't break Holmes' ribs during the sparring session pre Super Fight, but who knows.

 

No, Larry was always a heavyweight who took up boxing at age 18. If you notice, he always boxed tall, something Ali didn't always do. (You see Muhammad ducking Norton's overhand right frequently during their second bout. Muhammad took up boxing at age 12 weighing 98 pounds. He drew on that smaller and shorter competitor amateur background, although he didn't have to much.) Joe Frazier like to point out that guys like himself, George Foreman, Larry and Ken Norton were always heavyweights.

However, Larry's kid brother Mark Holmes WAS a middleweight, and a darned good stylist, who retired at 28 after going 38 (17)-1 (1) -0, his only defeat a stoppage loss to John Collins (unfortunately in Scranton, Holmes territory). Larry's simple advice to Mark for dealing with such situations as southpaws was, "When in doubt, stick it out." Years after they retired, Mark would sometimes show up at Larry's gym and school youngsters with his fluid ease. Held an early close decision win over future champion Buster Drayton, and his biggest mid career win was probably a cut eye stoppage against Mike Baker..

 

Norton was exactly #10. Worth noting that Holmes was rated champ by then which makes Norton #11 overall.

Young was outside the 10. Interestingly Norton was the only Ring rated contender (juuuust) Cooney ever beat.

 

No, he was a slender amateur heavyweight who even competed under 200 pounds as a pro as late as age 25. Against the burly Duane Bobick, he looks like the skinny weakling getting beaten up on the playground or at the beach. Holmes was wiped out in one by deadly punching southpaw Nick Wells in the amateurs, while Bobick's amateur Kryptonite was Ron Lyle.

Guys like Chuvalo and Holmes wouldn't correct Frazier during joint retirement interviews because of how much they liked and respected him. Joe was always very cheerful and pleasant company for them, so they opted to maintain that good spirit. (Chuvalo was always extremely articulate and intelligent, very well spoken, but now, at age 86, he unfortunately has advanced dementia, but leaves many excellent interview clips and comments behind on YouTube.)

 

Hence why I said, "It's odd"- Holmes by all accounts was around the start of the heavyweight limit going into his teens, and this was likely supported by his love of football growing up. I haven't seen any amateur tapes of Larry, but it certainly would be a delight to witness, as the best I've seen apart from his standard career was some short clips of early sparring footage and some exhibitions he did both during his title reign and post Tyson.

That makes sense as well. Occam's Razor and such.

 

Duane Bobick - Larry Holmes was broadcast on ABC and announced by Howard Cosell with Muhammad Ali on commentary. It's been on YouTube. Larry had a stigma attached to him due to the way he was disqualified. So far as I know, his very next recorded performance was his stoppage of Duane's brother Rodney on the Manila undercard. Then, Tiger Williams is also on YouTube, he decisioned Tom Prater aboard the USS Lexington with George Foreman on commentary. The next available YouTube footage for Holmes is Shavers I.

 

I've seen his fights with Roy and Rodney, just not the amateur fight with Bobick.