Mickey Walker VS Freddie Steele

Oh my ****ing days how many times.

It's irrelevant to the whole conversation

 

Literally laughed out loud. Poor Perry.

 

Lol this thread is a war. It truly is a shitshow when im agreeing with Seamus on almost all of his comments though.

Ay if you or @roughdiamond have a discord you're free to join my server. BitPlayerVesti and Malibu Mauler are already in there and we talk about boxing, video games and anime all the time

Also to rough, your sparring looked great man, i hope your goal is nothing less than the world title belts.

 

Yes he's always so precise and balanced and is a great influence for youngsters like yourself and George. It's a shame McGrain doesn't post much nowadays either but i'm sure you've read his fantastic lists from head to toe multiple times. Some of the best boxing reading ever truth be told.

 

I'd be glad to
My name's georgecrowcroft070

Oh and literally just made the account for this

 

i need your 4 digit number as well, it comes with the discord account

for an example, mine is Lachlan #7408

 

Name the historians upon which you base this assessment.

 

#1918

 

"Bert Sugar"

 

You're not quite getting it.

Historical rankings as has been said a dozen times in this thread have nothing to do with the task at hand. Walker can't hold Steele off and control him with Nat's book in there. Nat has some very very strange rankings going on to say the least.

Walker is a top shelf great but he lost to or struggled with fighters below Steele's standard too. Steele did most of his serious work at middleweight where as Walker scaled the weights brilliantly and is always going to be highly ranked P4P. This doesn't make Steele any less of a middleweight.

Picking H2H automatically on historical standing is ridiculous.

 

Steele was a hard puncher but lacked defense or an inside game. Walker would murder him inside. Walker was a higher level of pedigree and as such why he is rated so highly from those who watched him live. Steele was never thought of at Walkers level until revisionism and ignorance of history became the norm.

 

Quick snapshots. Note not a single mention of Steele even though many great middleweight names are mentioned:

IRVING RUDD, boxing publicist: “I’d rate Robinson and Mickey Walker over Hagler. Joey Giardello I give a hell of a shot against Hagler. Hagler-LaMotta? Hey, I’d pay a lot of money to see that one. Really, the only guy I’m certain that Hagler couldn’t beat is Robinson. And Charley Burley, maybe he beats Hagler, too.”

ROY McHUGH, retired boxing writer: “Robinson, of course, is No. 1. I’ve seen Mickey Walker and I don’t think I can rate Hagler over him. Monzon was awfully good, I can’t separate Hagler from Monzon. And it’s hard for me to imagine Hagler hurting LaMotta. Cerdan-Hagler, that’s an even fight.”

BENNIE GEORGINO, boxing trainer: “I put Robinson, Walker, LaMotta and Monzon on top, but Hagler is definitely in the top 10. Monzon was a better fighter, he fought better fighters than Hagler has. I might rate Hagler higher had he defeated Sugar Ray Leonard,”

BILLY CONN, former light-heavyweight champion: “Hagler doesn’t make the top 10 if you’re talking about guys like Mickey Walker.”

BERT SUGAR, boxing writer: “The middleweights I rated ahead of Hagler were Robinson (No. 1), Greb (3rd), Walker (7th), Ketchel (21st), Cerdan (34th), LaMotta (43rd), Monzon (51st), Tiger Flowers (54th), Charley Burley (64th) and Zale (70th).

LOU DUVA, boxing trainer: “The middleweight division isn’t as tough as it used to be. Robinson beats Hagler. Monzon beat him. LaMotta beats him. Mickey Walker beats him. And Ken Overlin would beat Hagler.”

NICK BECK, Boxing historian: “ I can think of five guys right now who I’m sure would beat Hagler--Robinson, (Mickey) Walker, (Tony) Zale, Jake LaMotta, Monzon, Marcel Cerdan.

Nat Fleischer, Ring Magazine, rated the middleweights this way: 1. Ketchel. 2. Tommy Ryan. 3. Greb. 4. Mickey Walker. 5. Sugar Ray Robinson. 6. Frank Klaus. 7. Billy Papke. 8. Les Darcy. 9. Mike Gibbons. 10. Jeff Smith.

 

Not having Monzon or Hagler in his top 10 gives him an enormous amount of credibility yeah?

Jeff Smith >Monzon/Hagler lolololol

 

My god, if those quotes aren't evidence of the unconscious bias of old timers, I don't know what is!