Mickey Walker vs Holman Williams

damn you vic!!! without seeing sufficient footage of either i will let better minds than mine chime in

 

Not really enough footage of Holman but given he was a master technician and Walker had problems with such boxers, you'd have to give him the edge. Lamotta another pressure fighter ofcourse got the decision over him in Holman's 177th pro fight and in his 34th year, but that said I've head from some sources it was controversial but I've heard differing reports on that

 

Certainly disagree with that

 

p4p? i think walker has a case for top 20. williams doesn't. imo anyway

 

same here, he's one of the few guys who defends roy jones as much as i do

 

Impossible to say...perhaps Williams technical ability gives Walker all he can handle and then some. I'll let the people who have read up more on Williams than I have comment on that.I will say this...Walker is a tough, relentless customer. The reason I'd pick ray Robinson over a Mickey Walker is this (and it would not be easy...it would be a brutal fight) is that Robinson moved really well to his own left side to use that left hook more, Walker had a tendency to lean slightly towards his right side so he could literally whip that left hook over...Robinson would move away from that shot, putting his own hook into play...Williams could do this, but I'm not sure Williams is as offensively dynamic as Robinson (I doubt it!!!) so I think Walker could use his very good footwork and close on Williams as hard as he would need to...because Williams doesn't have enough firepower to really keep him honest...but another variable is this, Williams fought a veritable who's who of tough opponents (just like Walker) alot of very accomplished fighters, so who could hit much harder than Mickey Walker...If Williams was cagey and fast enough to deal with those fighters why not Walker?...Tiger Flowers apparently outpointed Walker, but didnt get the call...Anyone can pick their side and have a valid point on this one. IMO...Would like to hear the take of the folks who have spent some time studying the Murder's Row on this match-up.

 

No not at all, some have Burley as high as top10 and others have Holman ranking above Burley (for good reason although I disagree on this myself), therefore Holman has a case for top20, just look at his wins resume: Burley, Archie Moore, Lloyd Marshall, Cocoa Kid, Eddie Booker, Kid Tunero, Bob Sattefield, Bert Lytell, Aaron Wade, Jack Chase, Leto, Basora, Tommy Paul (drew with Kid Chocolate/Sarron and lost the FW title on an SD).

Not all of those names are greats but the none greats I believe do fit in the very good category at their best

Holman also won his first title at lightweight (Negro Lightweight Title), was avoided throughout his career for obvious reasons and went on to be a champion at middleweight and beat some of histories best light heavyweights

Holman has his fair share of losses but never seemed outclassed and some of them controversial decisions. LEt's bare in mind for many this is the pinnacle of welterweight, middleweight and light heavyweight boxing, the deepest of all eras in those divisions perhaps. And we shouldn't forget Holman had numerous injuries throughout his career, including broken hands, while often fighting weekly

HE also seems to have a case for beating Lamotta and Cerdan past his own prime at the age of 34 with over 170 fights

 

PP, looking at the fighters who Williams beat, satterfield, Moore, Lytell,
Lloyd Marshall, Eddie booker, Jack Chase, a case could be made that Ray Robinson who avoided these fighters ,might have been beaten by Holman ?

 

BB, Hope you don't mind me butting in here, cuz you and I generally disagree on some things...But I think Holman's resume says he would acquit himself very well against anyone...even if that someone is named Robinson. IMO...if Robinson were to square off against Williams and Walker...Williams would be a harder fight for Ray stylistically...and Walker would be harder fight physically. But I think Ray handles Walker for the reason I stated in an earlier thread, he generally would be moving away from Walker's bread and butter (the left hook) setting up his own offense...Robinson against Holman is harder to conceptualize. But anyway William's record says he could beat anybody around that weight on a given night...

 

dp, welcome to the fray...You think "Ray could have handled Walker" Hmmm, i recall a certain Artie Levine had Robinson out on the canvas and if not for a 16-17 second "long count" by the helping referee,Ray would not have beat the 10 count in 1946...I saw Artie Levine several times fight and he would not have even been a viable opponent for the Toy Bulldog...Just take a gander on Mickey Walker in his prime flattening the British MW champ Tommy Milligan in London in 1927...Brits who saw Randy Turpin fight Ray Robinson in London in 1951, and also saw Walker destroy Milligan in 1927 chose Walker over Robinson by a great majority in a ringside poll in 1951...No fighter ever was any TOUGHER than Mickey Walker who later on challenged LHs and heavyweights such as Johnny Risko,Paolino Uzcudun,
Maxie Rosenbloom, Bearcat Wright [45 pounds heavier] and drew with a
prime Jack Sharkey in 1931...Don't sell the Toy Bulldog short against any MW ever...

 

Hmmmmm well it seems to me most boxing people in the past do indeed rate Ray Robinson over the Toy Bulldog at welter AND middle...Welcome to the fray bb.
Maybe you are the one selling someone short...hmmmmm. Don't sell the consensus P4P short against any welter or middle ever...haha.
Addendum: Can't say I've ever seen anyone confuse Tommy Milligan to Ray Robinson.