Middleweight Tournament Round 2: Fitzsimmons vs Robinson

This thread is ridiculous, Fitzsimmons batters Robinson and he makes it look easy.

There is nothing to suggest Robinson wins, now hit me!

 

Beating 1890s HWs is allot different from fighting modern heavies and many post 20s MWs would replicate the same feat if the division was as weak and the HWs Fitz beat and as small in stature for that matter too

 

People take way too much notice of Robinsons past prime second career, he was forced back into the ring by IRS debts much like Louis, but unlike Louis had much more success

Who's to say Fitz is even a banger with 8OZ gloves?

 

There's that magical word again...'Modern'. Ooooo...modern!

Come to think about it anyone with a jab, anyone who does anything that looks like some kind of shoulder role or anyone that says things like "Yeah baby!" after they land a punch clearly has pure modern ability.

I know where people are going when they talk about the modern-side of things, but no one ever breaks it down and specifies on the interchangeables to then try and find an objective level-playing field.

Now start analysing better ya goofs. And some of you people box! Sheesh.

 

Most of Robinson's prime career was at welterweight.

Fitz did better than Robinson into old age, actually. Robinson was a much better fighter than Fitz when they were in their twenties. Fitz was the much better fighter when they were in their thirties. That means Robinson was at his best as a welterweight, Fitz as a middle or super-middle.

"Who's to say Fitz is even a banger with 8oz gloves?"

Well, the other men of his era used the same gloves he did. He punched harder than they did. I think he still does with 8oz gloves. Also, how do we know Robinson could take punches from a Fitz era glove?

 

And a 21st century wolf would easily handle an 1890's tiger. Everyone knows that.

"many post 20s MWs would replicate the same feat if the division was as weak and the hws Fitz beat and as small in stature for that matter too"

Even if this over-the-top argument were true, Robinson had more than enough problems handling Carmen Basilio, let alone Tom Sharkey, and Fitz's opponents were a hell of a lot bigger than anyone Robinson was beating.

Skill is not exactly everything. The crude as hell Danny Nardico destoyed Jake LaMotta in a way the skilled as hell Robinson never could. Why? The twenty plus pounds and all that power probably explains it.

 

I take it you're being sarcastic? Where's your analysis?

 

perfectly put... the difference is to great

 

JimmyShimmy wrote:

"I know where people are going when they talk about the modern-side of things, but no one ever breaks it down and specifies on the interchangeables to then try and find an objective level-playing field."

Now that is one thought-provoking statement!

How to cross historical times, subtract this or that historical circumstance-which includes styles conforming to particular times, manners and customs of boxing, the actual physical condition at some time or other of the boxer, etc.- then come up with some residue, some common denominator, by which we can pit the boxers against one another in a way we can then appraise?

And what would that common "objective" denominator be?

I ask that if I understand what JimmyShimmy is getting at.

 

If he knew what he was talking about he'd post his own stylistic analysis.

As it is it's just 'he'd smash him'.

 

I've got to think a fighter good enough that Joe Gans would study him and receive advice from isn't too far below Robinson's league to beat the middleweight version of Sugar Ray.

 

I also hinks Gans would be sub-par against 'modern' ATG's. From what I've seen of him (little and grainy) he seemed FANTASTIC for his time, a true innovator and very much influential to later fighters.

If he got some of that from Fitz, great. Sums up my opinion that Fitz was also a great of his time.

Do you think the fastest man around this time could beat Usain Bolt in a race? No, because nowadays we can help our natural talents with all kinds of conditioning, getting the best out of every muscle in the body.

Ray Robinson is not that advanced but like Fitzsimmons he was very, very well conditioned. Put this with a stunning array of attacks and slick boxing and ring generalship Fitz had never seen before.

Ray would be harder to figure out from Fitzsimmons perspective than the other way round IMO.

 

fleaman do you still think robinson annihilates early

just curious how early and how

 

Fitzsimmons fought a lot of fights with 8oz gloves and so did Sullivan.

It was the exception, and they were regarded as pillows, but some states mandated them.

 

The thinking of some posters on this site is more akin to, "A 21st century wolf would easily handle a 66 million year old T rex".

The Trex was great for its time but would have no chance against the wolf's more modern technique.

It wouldnt know what was happening when the wolf started trying to outflank it.