Miguel Canto - his top 5 wins

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by China_hand_Joe, Dec 31, 2009.


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  1. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    I don't even know why I gave him the time of day. I guess it's because he makes me laugh. I honestly think he's a comedian. Tearing down Canto's resume only to mention Joe Calzaghe's ATG status in the same sentence. Brilliant.
     
    Sweet Pea, Dec 31, 2009
    Sweet Pea, Dec 31, 2009
    #16
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  2. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I knew you would mention him.

    He was a World champion!



    But one who took his title form a 11-10-1 fighter and lost it the very next fight.

    Just look at the records of the guys he beat, then look what happened whenever he came up against guys with decent records.

    The only 21-8 type fighters Olivo was capable of beating were one who had built their 21-8 on 8-8-1 type fighters.

    There is no depth to Canto's resume at all.
     
    China_hand_Joe, Dec 31, 2009
    China_hand_Joe, Dec 31, 2009
    #17
  3. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    What about the fact Olivo took Woo Yuh to a split and went a competitive 12 with Zapata?

    I don't know why I even bother. You are clearly a wind-up merchant.
     
    TommyV, Dec 31, 2009
    TommyV, Dec 31, 2009
    #18
  4. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It's been decades since I've watched Canto, but I'll give it a shot. (By the way, Happy New Decade everyone!)

    Vargas I & II, Oguma III, Gonzales III and Takada.

    Jiro Takada was the only stoppage win of his championship career, and got a lot of airplay on US television during the late 1970s and early 1980s on the syndicated Calvacade of Boxing program presented by Steven Bass and Harold Lederman. Canto peppered him with every punch in the book, things like effortless six hook combinations. An amazingly quick guy.

    A camera close up of Canto's footwork in the final round of one of the Vargas wins showed that there was no discernible difference in the way he moved his feet from the opening round. Tremendous 15 round conditioning.

    From long range, this short flyweight could neutralize and outbox opponents of greater height and reach as effectively as any stylist I've ever seen.

    Canto was susceptible to cuts, but had the defensive skill to render this weakness moot during his prime. His slide didn't begin until after he turned 30, an advanced age for a world class points oriented flyweight.

    Was he an ATG? He dethroned Oguma for his WBC title, and beat him in two defenses, all in Japan. He swept the last two from Gonzales, the final one in Venezuela. Gonzales and Oguma are potential HOF inductees. (Given the IBHOF's diminished standards, Gonzales and Oguma are probably shoo-ins.) He came as close to unifying the flyweight championship as he could have in that political climate with his series wins over Gonzales and Oguma. From 1975 to 1979, Canto was clearly the best in the world at 112.
     
    Duodenum, Dec 31, 2009
    Duodenum, Dec 31, 2009
    #19
  5. Mantequilla

    Mantequilla Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Stay out of classic Joe.Or at least have the imagination to create a china hand conteh account for your wind up posts.
     
    Mantequilla, Dec 31, 2009
    Mantequilla, Dec 31, 2009
    #20
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Who the **** is running CHJ's account these days?
     
    McGrain, Dec 31, 2009
    McGrain, Dec 31, 2009
    #21
  7. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Finally someone makes a coherant post.

    But you should be listing anything other than wins over Oguma and Gonzalez. They are the only two fighters whose resumes standup to any real examination.

    On no level am I saying Canto wasn't world class, that would be silly.

    And I agree he was the best flyweight in the world at that time.

    But not by sufficient enough of a margin to be named above the like of Ricardo Lopez, Barrera, Marquez, Morales like he was in the other thread. A fighter with Barrera's talent at that weight would have ripped the division up.

    Canto was an ATG flyweight, but deserves to stay well away from any all time P4P lists. People are listing this guy above some great fighters which is insane when people are listing wins over Vargas as amopng his best.
     
    China_hand_Joe, Dec 31, 2009
    China_hand_Joe, Dec 31, 2009
    #22
  8. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Claiming Canto is greater than Ricardo Lopez or Eric Morales is a wind up mate.

    The numbers on his resume don't add up to him being that kind of level.
     
    China_hand_Joe, Dec 31, 2009
    China_hand_Joe, Dec 31, 2009
    #23
  9. Mantequilla

    Mantequilla Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well he is no Robin Reid i'll give you that.
     
    Mantequilla, Dec 31, 2009
    Mantequilla, Dec 31, 2009
    #24
  10. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Robin Reid has a deeper resume if you just look at the numbers and ignore the names.

    Losing a split decision to Calzaghe arguably puts him above Canto, if you ignore Calzaghe's injury.

    Flyweight does not have the deeped talent pool in the history of the sport. How many people that size do you see in the street?

    Canto did not rip his opposition apart, he is not a top 5 all time Mexican fighter. You are all collectivey insane on this issue.




    1 Pascual Perez 831 84(57)-7(3)-1

    1952-1964 orthodox

    Argentina
    2 Jimmy Wilde 823 133(99)-4(3)-2

    1910-1923 orthodox

    Quakers Yard, Wales, United Kingdom
    3 Efren Torres 719 53(35)-9(3)-1

    1959-1972 orthodox

    Michoacán de Ocampo, Mexico
    4 Chartchai Chionoi 662 61(36)-18(5)-3

    1959-1975 orthodox

    Patumthanee, Thailand
    5 Jackie Paterson 657 64(41)-25(10)-3

    1938-1951

    Springfield, Scotland, United Kingdom
    6 Benny Lynch 615 81(34)-12(1)-15

    1931-1938 orthodox

    Gorbals, Scotland, United Kingdom
    7 Pone Kingpetch 598 28(9)-7(3)-0

    1954-1966 orthodox

    Hua Hin, Thailand
    8 Salvatore Burruni 585 99(32)-9(1)-1

    1957-1969

    Alghero, Sardegna, Italy
    9 Horacio Enrique Accavallo 581 75(34)-2(1)-6

    1956-1967 southpaw

    Buenos Aires, Distrito Federal, Argentina
    10 Pancho Villa 512 80(24)-5(0)-3

    1919-1925 orthodox


    11 Miguel Canto 510 61(15)-9(5)-4

    1969-1982 orthodox

    Merida, Yucatán, Mexico
    12 Hiroyuki Ebihara 485 62(33)-5(0)-1

    1959-1969 southpaw

    Tokyo, Japan
    13 Betulio Gonzalez 483 77(52)-12(4)-4

    1968-1988 orthodox

    Maracaibo, Venezuela
    14 Masao Oba 471 35(16)-2(0)-1

    1966-1973 orthodox

    Tokyo, Japan
    15 Frankie Genaro 459 78(18)-23(4)-8

    1920-1934

    New York, New York, United States
    16 Venice Borkhorsor 423 49(36)-8(1)-0

    1968-1980 southpaw

    Nakhon Phanom, Thailand
    17 Rinty Monaghan 420 51(20)-9(1)-6

    1934-1949

    Belfast, Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
    18 Little Pancho 408 42(7)-14(4)-15

    1928-1942


    19 Peter Kane 405 89(54)-8(4)-2

    1934-1951

    Liverpool, Merseyside, United Kingdom
    20 Santos Benigno Laciar 403 79(30)-10(0)-11

    1976-1990 orthodox

    Villa Carlos Paz, Cordoba, Argentina



    There is a reason boxrec only considers him the 11th best flyweight in history, their ratings are far form perfect, but that is really low that you can ignore any imperfections and errors in their formulae. No depth to his resume.

    http://boxrec.com/ratings.php?country=&sex=m&division=Flyweight&status=E&SUBMIT=Go
     
    China_hand_Joe, Dec 31, 2009
    China_hand_Joe, Dec 31, 2009
    #25
  11. Mantequilla

    Mantequilla Boxing Addict Full Member

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    :lol:
     
    Mantequilla, Dec 31, 2009
    Mantequilla, Dec 31, 2009
    #26
  12. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    :roflI'll say it again Joe, you're a funny guy.
     
    Sweet Pea, Dec 31, 2009
    Sweet Pea, Dec 31, 2009
    #27
  13. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    Boxrec also says Oscar De La Hoya is a top 10 ATG. And they only have Calzaghe in the 50's, how do you feel about Boxrec now?
     
    TommyV, Dec 31, 2009
    TommyV, Dec 31, 2009
    #28
  14. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Maybe I am the crazy one, perhaps you are all right.

    But I doubt this very much.

    I am David Icke, you are Terry Wogan and his audience.

    We will leave it there and never agree.
     
    China_hand_Joe, Dec 31, 2009
    China_hand_Joe, Dec 31, 2009
    #29
  15. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Therefore, can I safely assume you regard Canto's five wins against those two opponents as his most impressive? I have no quarrel with that at all, and certainly agree that Vargas wasn't remotely in their class, but I was struck by Canto's mastery over the complete distance against Vargas. It was clearly by choice that he did not stop the Chilean late, yet he almost did it by accident anyways. Takada was a uniquely aggressive performance by Canto (much as Fuji was for Locche), and Takada was a reasonably qualified challenger for El Maestro's belt. As I haven't seen Canto's earlier wins over Oguma and Gonzales, I wasn't entirely comfortable citing those outcomes over those with which I'm more familiar, as good as they look on paper.
    Really, that's what mattered most, as Benny Leonard was so fond of pointing out.
    As you and Pea are long since well aware, I essentially stopped following boxing as the abolition of the championship distance became established, so I'm admittedly not qualified to judge Canto objectively against successors of the 12 round era.
    I'm perfectly satisfied with your acceptance of the ATG designation for Canto.

    I loved how a bigot like "Flash" Gordon would sometimes write things such as, "All Mexicans have two left feet, with the exception of Miguel Canto." (Laughably, Flash was applying that stereotype to Sal Sanchez when he exempted Canto from his mindless blanket statement.) Canto was a refreshingly different kind of Mexican great, one who shattered the traditional machismo notion of withstanding loads of punishment to bury a hook in the liver, bust up and beat down the opposition.
     
    Duodenum, Dec 31, 2009
    Duodenum, Dec 31, 2009
    #30
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