Miguel Vazquez vs Denis Shafikov. IBF Lightweight title. 22-2-2014.

Not to take anything away from Vazquez, Shafikov lost to a very good fighter but do you stand by that ?

 

Yes. Shafikov is still the best Russian lightweight by a country mile. Which country, you may ask? Siberia (alright, territory, but whatever). Every damn square mile in Siberia, lined up in a row - that is the distance by which Shafikov outpaces the likes of Troya, Petrov, and Papazov.

Losing to a fellow elite- be it even in lopsided fashion - doesn't suddenly make you a bum and not elite to begin with.

Losing to a phenomenal lightweight in Vázquez doesn't make Shafikov any less a top 5 lightweight in the world, clear #1 lightweight in Russia, and up there among his Russian brethren p4p.

The same way losing to a phenomenal cruiser in Jones didn't make Lebedev any less a top 5 cruiser, the clear #1 Russian cruiser, and up there among his countrymen p4p.

Alvarez losing to Mayweather doesn't make him a bum, etc.


That just isn't how it works, except in the fickle & feeble minds of sports "fan" who think you automatically have to be torn down for a loss, even if that loss was to elite competition. :huh (or, haters simply reluctant to credit the elite competition that beat them...which is probably the case with anyone who now starts jeering Shafikov, since everybody loves to hate Vázquez...)

 

...these guys, FWIW, along with Nugaev & Klimov, wouldn't even get the couple of rounds Shafikov nicked off Vázquez...and they all, to a man, would be susceptible to being stopped inside schedule. (either on cuts or via ref's or corner's mercy TKO)

He is as far ahead of the field in his division for his country as Manny Pacquiao is ahead of...****, who are even some other notable Filipino welters? Mark Jason Melligen?

 

Well, you didn't really answer my question.

I wanted to know if this fight had made you reconsider your ranking and if you still rated him higher than Povetkin or Lebedev (which you obviously validated the "loss" to Jones) or even an Allakhverdiev who's expected to look good soon. (against a lesser opponent than Vazquez in Vargas )

 

I answered you quite thoroughly.

Behind Kovalev, there is still as before a very tight cluster of Shafikov, Allakhverdiev, Povetkin, and Lebedev. Regardless of the order, they are top five.

The next group after them includes Provodnikov, Gradovich, Korobov, and Drozd. Tenth spot up for grabs...maybe Sukhotsky or Chudinov? :think

 

Kovalev and this crop of very good ones i put Provo with. :good
I'm not sure i'd say he (Kovalev) definitely tops the list yet though.

I just wanted to know what was your ranking update after this fight and if there was one. D:

 

I know you're one of these type of fans who appreciates the science aspect of the sport but tell me honestly, 1) How many of you are there compared to the whole population of boxing fans and 2) do you think you're the kind of fans that drives the sport or kill it?..... Just accept it, you're a dying breed of fans.. Majority likes blood when it comes to sport like this. Not dancing.

 

right, will give it a bash then. :good

 

Well said.

I would describe myself as a hardcore boxing fan, infact boxing is the only sport i watch now. I appreciate all different styles and i'd say the masterclass Rigo put on against Donaire last year was a thing of beauty and one of my favourite fights of 2013.

What i saw on saturday during the Vasquez fight was excruciating and had no entertainment value whatsoever, people were put to sleep but unfortunately it wasn't inside the ring.

Boxers like Vasquez, Richard Abril and Carlos Molina should not be given a platform on television, hell i wouldn't even allow them to be filmed on a mobile phone incase footage of their fights leaked on to youtube.

People may argue that boxers lke Vasquez are masters in the art of self defence but Pro boxing is about entertainment and thankfully Vasquez isn't the norm as if he was, Boxing would have died a long time ago.

No fan wants to watch the boxing equivalent of a tide coming in and out round after round.

 

I agreed with most of your post but did notice a bit of hypocrisy. Vazquez, Abril and Molina are in the same category as Rigo, Lara, Floyd, etc when it comes to entertainment. We could argue all day which one is less boring than the others but they're all basically in the same ball-park.

 

:?

They're not all in the same category, though.

Vázquez is as different from Molina and Abril as he is from Rigondeaux...or from, say, Brandon Rios.

Completely different styles.

Abril and Molina clinch. All night long. Hence pretty much everyone agreeing they suck to watch.

Vázquez jabs and moves. He isn't really a big clincher. Neither is Rigondeaux. Neither is Mayweather. Neither was Spinks. Neither was Calderon. All of those guys - while they represent a disparate group of styles - all fall under the umbrella of what their haters call "runners". (a tag none of them really deserved...but which, for example, Andre Dirrell fully deserved...at least in his match with Curtis Stevens...)

If you're going to accuse Vázquez of being a boring fighter, it would be on the grounds of being primarily a so-called "runner", not lumping him in with guys who are primarily clinchers.

 

I realise Vasquez is different from Abril and Molina in that Miguel circles and jabs wheras Abril and Molina jab and clinch but i'm lumping them all together because all three are one note fighters in that they do the exact same move round after round without any change or variety. You can argue it's a winning formula for them but it's also mind numbing one for the audience who wants to see some variation.

At least with Mayweather and Rigo they can mix up their punches and be entertaining when they want to even though both can fall too much into a safety first mode and start becoming dull.

 

You know what, though? Boxing is currently doing something that no other sport does. It's blackballing fighters -- especially good fighters -- because they're boring. When a "sport" starts doing that, its stop being an honest-to-god competition among the best. If Erislandy Lara or Miguel Vazquez or Rigo has to sit on the sidelines because he's too good and too boring, are you really OK with that as a fan? Would you prefer the second-tier "exciting fighters" duke out it for pseudo-supremacy?

 

watched this last night. the first 3 rounds from Vazquez were beautiful. he used his jab at range with some good snap on it and not allowing Shafikov to get any where near to him. it was enjoyable to watch which left me scratching my head about all the negative reports and posts about it.
the highlight was in the first round with Vazquez landing a looping right hand straight on the button that reminded me of the shot that Groves knocked out Paul Smith with.

that's the positives out the way.

in the 4th round, the ugly **** started to creep in. Vazquez started to lunge at Denis in a dangerous manner with the head and grab out at him to put him in a vice like grip. pretty it wasn't. and it's a shame after the great start Miguel had. round 5 was a bit better but Miguel was back to his tricks in the 6th.

the fight was pretty much spotty after that until the final bell. some nice boxing from Vazquez here and there, and some not so nice boxing. i guess it was a fight of two halfs if you break it down.

there were a few things that really irked me in the fight though: 1 being that the ref never took any points from Miguel for his dangerous ways of coming in with his head and holding.

2 being that Denis was getting warnings from the ref when it was very clear who was to blame.

and the 3rd was all the moaning about the use of the head coming from Miguel when it was him that was to blame for it.
i think he just trying to hood wink the ref into believing that it was a two way thing so as not to get points taken off or DQ'd.

so, those who had gripes with the fight are neither right or wrong. as half was good, the other being bad. so there were positives and negatives.

in future i hope Miguel keeps his boxing long because he's actually good to watch in this position. it's just when he gets in close that the problems arise. he can't fight on the inside. it comes off as a goofy, ugly mess with many possibilities of a serious head clash coming about due to the careless nature of it. so he needs to stop doing that. the man has genuine skill on the outside though and will prove difficult to beat in future.

lastly, i agree with those who said it was better than the usual showing by Wladimir Klitschko. the first 3 rounds had more flow to it than the last 10 fights by the grabby one.

 

Agree with most of your post except that the head-butting was not as one sided as you're trying to make it. Shafikov did his fair share of holding and headbutting!