Mike Tyson (1988) Vs Jack Dempsey (1919-21) 15 Rd Heavyweight Fight

PAVLIK ------------------------Jack Dempsey
31-0
Weight 160 Weight ------------192 lbs
Height 6-1
Reach 78" Reach -------------77''
Stance Orthodox
Neck 17 Neck ---------------16.5''
Chest (normal) 44 Chest/Norm. ----42''
Chest (expanded) 46 Chest/Exp. ------46''
Biceps 16 1/2" Biceps ------------16.25''
Forearms 14" Forearm --------14.5''
Wrist 7"Wrist ---------------9''
Fist 13" Fist ----------------11.25''
Waist 31" Waist --------------33''
Thigh 18" Thigh -------------23''
Calf 12"
Arm length 27"

:hey

 

exactly, on this forum it does not apply to Certain fighters...

 

Good point: boxing is first and foremost about being heavy. This is why we have weight categories. This is also, incidentally, why Valuev is unbeatable and would probably finish Tyson off within the first three rounds. It's also why Andrew Golota will KO Adamek in two rounds: any weight difference above 24 lbs means the fight is clearly over. That's why Pavlik couldn't beat Dempsey, Adamek can't beat Golota, Chagaev couldn't beat Valuev and Dempsey couldn't beat Tyson. QED.

 

Pavlik couldn't beat Dempsey.

 

My point exactly. Pavlik is 30 lbs smaller than Dempsey and that means that Pavlik couldn't beat Dempsey. For the same reason, Tyson could have never have beaten a PRIME Brian Nielsen.

 

Physically, Pavlik isnt too bad. It is a shame he doesnt have power like Dempsey, a chin like Dempsey, heart like Dempsey, Adaptability etc. It seems to prove Physical statistics may be similar (and are similar) but that doesnt necessarilly mean that power or chin is on the same level.

 

If Chagaev could somehow beat Valuev, why do we have weight categories?

 

More money for the sanctioning bodies?

 

Impossible. Are you saying that Floyd Mayweather could beat a prime Roy Jones?

 

Time to be serious: because when you've got to make a set weight-limit, it matters a lot. If you walk around at 185 and you're a middleweight, it's going to be a huge physical trial to get down to 160. Put the same boxer who dominates at 160 with a lesser boxer who naturally weighs at 185, force the middleweight to make the limit, and they'd lose. Dehydration, weight-draining and so on effectively make the cruiserweight division and under a different sport from the heavyweights.

There are other reasons why Chagaev did something you wouldn't expect to find at the lighter divisions. There is a definite law of diminishing returns that begins to kick it at about light-heavyweight with regard to size, which makes sense when you consider that, while Steve Cunnigham is 25 lbs heavier than Jean Pascal, he's not 25 lbs of muscle and bone. Also, size strength works on a two-dimensional basis (point A to point B) while muscle is three dimensional, it's no surprise that while 5 lbs can make a big strength difference at 120 it makes very little difference in the heavyweights.

In other words, just because Dempsey was 24 lbs lighter than a prime Tyson, it doesn't automatically mean that Dempsey would lose. Otherwise, you'd be forced into denying that Chagaev-Valuev ever happened.

 

Dempsey's tale of the tape smells like bull**** in the upper body and arm department (bicpes+forearms). From all the pictures and videos I've seen from him there is no way he has 16 inch biceps and his forearms look more like 13 inch. Chest also seems incorrect. With what were they measuring back then? Not that these measurments have to do with anything, but since janitor brought it up, let's disscus. Like one poster said, a picture says a thousand words.
˙˙What we first saw in Mike, was that he was 12 years old, 5'8 and 190 pounds, but no fat. We wanted to see some official documents beacuse nobody belived he could be 12 years old`` - Teddy Atlas. Mike was also bench pressing 250 pounds in the youth facility, beacuse people were obviously betting he couldnt and he did. Bobby Stewart a proffesional fighter said a 12 year old Mike hit him harder then anyone else in his life braking his nose in their first sparring. Now thats a genetical gift. And now someone is going to tell me that a man like that who procced to train and end up with 220 pounds of fast twitch muslce fibres on a 5'10 frame is equal in power to a 6'1 man who has 30 pounds and more less of the muscle, and weaker bone construction. Law of physcis say NO.
I am well aware there are ˙˙smaller˙˙ man at 180 pounds who are stronger and more powerfull then someone at 230. But that someone probably has weak bone construction, flabby muscles by genetics or has dozens of pounds of unfunctinoal slow twitch muscle fibres...or their fat.
But we are talking about Mike Tyson here. It was also sudgested we cant say Foreman was any stronger or more powerfull then Dempsey. :rofl
I love Dempsey, all the respect to him, I love these old time warriors, but reality is one thing, fantasy and romaticising a certain period is another.

 

Kicking arse Kurgan

 

Of course not, I think this whole size/power disscusion started simply beacuse someone belives Dempsey's power is equal/comperebale to Tyson,Foreman,Shavers,Liston etc. But just size and power advantage over an opponent isnt enough. If Tyson was slow, unskilled glas jawed bum I'd pick Dempsey to KO him in the first. But Tyson is not only bigger and more powerfull then Dempsey he has more speed a better more proven chin, and better skill set (no matter how much janitor keeps wanking on the infighting ability of Dempsey). There's also the styles issue, Dempsey isnt a boxer, and if you'r gonna slug it out with Tyson first make sure you have a steel chin and at least equal size/power department. Thats why I say Tyson early KO. Not beacuse of extra 30 pounds. Thats another debate going on here, quite amusing to.

That being said, Dempsey KO1 Arreola. :yep Seriously, Arreola would end up on a wheel chair. LOL @ fat, tattooed mexican with zero skill fighting for the tittle :rofl