Mike Tyson 1988 vs. Wladimir Klitschko 2009

Sounds like you have lost insight since those days. I recommend a good multivitamin brand, daily exercise and half an hours study every day to try and get your mind sharp and flexible again

 

Well, I got called a "kunt" today for correctly stating Choklab didn't pick Ingo to beat Liston prime for prime.

 

This is one of the most blatant manufactured strawmen I have ever seen. I did not call you a deluded fanboy. I just stated it's pathetic and downright insulting to dismiss the 53 posters who voted for Tyson as "they dksab". At which point you responded with ad hominem attacks. Which is why I told you to grow up.

 

The fight would be as lob sided as the poll. . Fanboys lie but the harsh truth of the camera eye tells the truth

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Is that an example of a guy that wold beat one of the best offensive and defensive fighter the division has ever produced? The footage speaks for itself. I didn't make the video. Thats who he was.

The fight would look like Joe Bugner vs Joe Frazier

 

Except Bugner had a very good chin and Wlad didn't. I wouldn't expect Wlad to last long against Tyson.

 

Speaking for myself, I am far from a Tyson fanboy. I have literally been called a hater by Tyson fans on this forum.

I just think it's a bad match up.

 

I've been labeled a hater of Tyson by even other Tyson haters . I'm not even going to pretend I like him. I'm a far bigger fan of Wlad, as a human being but Tyson is a terrible match-up for him imo and is the superior h2h fighter.

 

Where did I say you said anything? Geez dude, lighten up. It sounds like you're seriously riled by this. Don't be. It's just an internet forum and the points don't matter.

 

Post footage of Tyson doing great in clinches then. Your footage merely underscores how Wlad controlled a bigger and stronger fighter than Tyson using the clinch. Ol Mike never liked being tied up.

 

The video does have an agenda, but it does undeniably show how bad the clinching became.
Holding and clinching is part of the game. It's a legitimate tactic.
But there comes a point where it's abused so much that it's not actually boxing anymore. It's anti-boxing.
I don't know how any purist can look at that and be impressed or appreciate it.

 

Off-Topic Question for all:

Who would Win in clinches between Wlad and James J. Jeffries?
I mean who would overpower the other?

Jeffries Prime 225 Ibs , Foreman type of Physical Strength.

I say Jeffries would win by late TKO in a 15+ rounder through total exhaustion and he would
overpower Klitschko easily i think but a modern referee may end the fight before that.

 

This is a good question actually.

-Jefferies has some interesting physical feats. He once carried a deer on his shoulders and jogged 9 miles back camp. What's interesting is not only did he carry it the whole time without resting, the other people accompanying him couldn't keep up.

-Jeff was known for both his tremendous strength and insane toughness. The Sharkey fight was a bloody slug fest for the aged with both men giving it their all in a back and forth war. I don't recall reading about him ever taking a step back or being overpowered or pushed around in clinches.

-Jeff also did lots of farm work and tended to the land himself. This would develop great functional muscle and wiry strength. He was probably close to the peak of what a 6 ft 220+ man could achieve in terms of strength without lifting weights or using peds and seemed to have a lot of natural bulk and strength to begin with.

As for Jeff vs Wladmir, wlad was a very heavy men later in his career often coming in anywhere from 235-250. He was chiseled and very physically fit but part of it was due to obvious HGH use and weight lifting. Hard to say exactly what would happen if they grappled, but I would imagine that a tough man like Jeff who was known for his brutish power and endurance would give Wlad all he could handle. If the ref penalizes Wlad for excessive leaning and grabbing and they actually try to outwork each other in the clinches it could look interesting.

I think if Wlad cannot overpower him within the first 4 rounds, Jeff would take over eventually. Wladmirs muscles, as I alluded to earlier, were less functional and more of the body builder variety. They would cause him to gas out if he engaged in a long drawn out grapple with a formidable foe. Jeff on the other hand has the endurance to operate his muscle all night as shown in his fights and the feat of carrying a deer for miles.

 

I see Jeffries listed from 6' (uncommon) to 6' 2 & a 1'2", but I believe 6' 1 1/2 " is most reasonable.
if that deer story is not apocryphal that is impressive.
But he absorbed a great deal of damage from somewhat smaller fighters, so I do not think he would be very competitive against arguably the greatest SHW ever.

Many use PEDs, but to assume someone does due to size that is achievable without it, or that they added much weight can be as irrational as assuming nobody ever caught does.
If there is evidence tell me, but either in total mass or how quickly he added mass I see nothing damning.
In fact in muscle per square inch at the same level of leanness, I do not see that he had more lean mass than Jeffries-less if Jim was actually only 6' tall.
I do not recall Wlad ever hitting 250 for a fight, but at his height that would be quite achievable naturally.
Which does not prove he did not juice either.

 

Well that's the thing, Wlad's "natural" weight is likely closer to 225-230 for a lean 6'6 mesomorph. He debuted at 220 at 20 years of age and did not get to the 230 range for another year, occasionally going up and down between 224-231 ish. Even when he was 22 years of age with 24 fights under his belt he was still coming into the ring weighing only 224.

Then all of a sudden in about a year, boom, he was consistently above 240. It's a little suspicious that his weight kept fluctuating up and down without putting on any fat at all, then in less than a year he was putting on 10-15 lbs of solid muscle without an ounce of fat and completely shredded. It gets worse when you consider that he maintained this physique up until his 40's Even in between fights he always looked like a Greek statue. I do not know any 40 year old men who can maintain a shredded action figure physique naturally without steroids or an insane amount of dedication to weight training. Usually by that age you will start to have at least some visible fat even if it's just a small amount like in the cheeks, flab on the hips, thighs, belly, etc. He has none of the above. With championship level boxing training you do not really have time to focus on intense weight training for aesthetics.

Hence why I mentioned HGH because it's usually used for people in that age group (late 30's to 50's) to maintain the looks and physique of their early years. My assumption has nothing to do with his height, I would think the same thing if he was 5'11 and shredded at 40+ years of age. Who knows, maybe he's just blessed with very good genetics+a body that maintains lean muscle through hard work in training. But considering we know for a fact Vitali used steroids in the past:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/boxing/2389404/Boxing-Klitschko-admits-steroid-abuse.html#:~:text=Vitali Klitschko, who defends his,steroids earlier in his career.&text=Wladimir, who was struggling to,to win the gold medal.

I think the simplest and most logical explanation is that his brother Vitali has dabbled with them as well. When I googled it, there was something interesting about Wladmir "struggling to make weight" for the super heavyweight class in the Olympics. This supports the idea Wladmir is really a natural 220 guy and did intense weight lifting (and drugs) to get to 240.

 

People accuse AJ of being on PEDs, but Klittards overlook these facts. And Klittards seem to be the ones accusing others of PEDs and cheating the most.

Foreman is a "small" heavyweight compared to today's "super heavyweights" yet he was more heavily built at 6'3.5" in his early 20s than early 20s Wladimir Klitschko was at 6'5.5".

He definitely worked to get up to 240+ lbs ...

Tyson was built at 5'10" 220 lbs by his mid to late teens ... He weighed roughly the same as early 20s Wladimir despite being 6" shorter ... It's true that people mature early and Wlad may have naturally put on size as he grew older ... but boxing is a cardio sport, so PEDs are definitely something to consider when it comes to the younger Klitschko ... Especially since his brother has a proven record of using them.

Either way he gets his jaw shattered and slips over his own urine when facing a prime Mike Tyson who was probably just as wide at the shoulder and more imposing than 6'6" Wladimir Klitschko ...