Mike Tyson and adversity

I want to meet this mythical perfect fighter, whoever he supposedly is, which all champions are measured against by their detractors. He must be a helluva guy.

 

Jesus. Against Holy he was on his back staring vacantly into space, and still was 13 second after going down when the ref plucked out his mouthpiece. If you can't see the jarring difference between the two, I can't really help you.

 

Well mister, let me introduce you to that exact fighter. In the second minute of the fourth round of the Holmes fight and forever there after, he was UNBEATABLE. His name.........Gerry Cooney, "the Long Island Snorter". An animal for that minute and the one fisted but 2 nostrilled fury by which every great heavyweight and athletic cokehead is compared. In a fantasy matchup, I would love the Tyson is king nuthuggers to go against the Cooney looneys in a finish fight debate.

 

Lol, you keep hanging on to "records say" but claim video evidence of the fight means nothing. The 2 video's of the previous fight shows Lewis being chinned like an over protected girl and then crying about an unfair stoppage when the stoppage was totally justified. The video of the second fight shows Lewis being scared to put away a Mccall who mentally wasn't even in the ring and wasn't aggressive enough. I like how you make all sorts of excuses for Lewis's defeats "not taking him lightly", "focusing on his cameo on Oceans 11", "let a fighter beat him who shouldn't have beaten him" when these same reasons apply to the Tyson-Douglas fight, Tyson-Holyfield fight.

Rahman was only responding to Lewis's unsporting attitude towards his defeat. Lewis needed to punches to put Rahman away but Rahman needed only one punch to put Lewis away in the previous fight and unlike Lewis, Rahman got up unassisted. Either Lewis got his ass spanked in the previous fight or Rahman got his ass spanked in the rematch, you decide

Again you pinpoint to "Record say" which is consistent with Lewis masterplanning his career in such a way that he ended up facing his major competitors i.e. Holyfield and Tyson being well past their prime and shot which naturally have ended up taking the gloss and credibility from those fights and Lewis as a result now having to constantly show video's of those fights and having to justify the results of these victories and having to answer to his critics every year. Most impartial fans and boxing observers will correctly highlight that Lewis faced his best opponents when they were past his prime.

Lewis against Holyfield was far from impressive and was not aggressive enough against a guy who was well past his best years.

It is not a suprise the guy is still struggling for credibility with American Boxing fans.

Tyson's actions were in a response to

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, anyone would get frustrated and enraged in the face of such blatant following. But otherwise i have no problems admitting Holyfield will give Tyson a tough fight at any time and that he has a better career than Lewis and fought much better fighters than lewis and ducked no body and did not deny anyone a rematch.

I notice you conveniently bring up "reasons", "Lewis not focused", "Lewis busy focusing on Oceans 11" for the Rahman defeat but don't give any such allowance to Tyson for the Douglas fight. Anybody who has a video tape of the fight will recognize that Douglas even though he battered the hell out of Tyson for 10 rounds, got a 13 second count, that Tyson took a hellacious beating in that fight and did not go down with one punch to the face unlike Chinny girl Lenny in his defeats.

Anyone who watches video tapes of Douglas will recognize that unlike Rahman, Douglas had much better boxing talent and ability and was actually a very good fighter on his good day, Douglas also defeat Oliver Mcall who starched your chinny girl with one shot to the face.

It was Douglas who ran away from rematching Tyson knowing full well that he will not get lucky ever again.

Larry Holmes himself in a interview in 1987 prior to the Tyson fight said that the rest was a godsend for him given the many years of fighting and that he needed his body to rest and recover.

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The same Larry Holmes went on to beat Ray Mercer convincingly, whereas 6 years later your chinny idol went life and death with a much past prime Ray Mercer, the same Larry Holmes gave Holyfield a tough fight afterwards, the same Larry Holmes put on a much more convincing performance against Mccall and got hit with the same sucker punch that Mccall hit your chinny girl with and dropped him with, but barely flinched.

So while Holmes was not prime in 1988, he was not a shot fighter at all, he was 38 years old at the time, he was 41 years old against Mercer, Holyfield and was 45 years old against Mccall. So Tyson should get a lot more credit than he actually deserves for being the only guy in history to KO Holmes in his entire career.

Riddick Bowe on his best day would have given Lewis major problems and potentially even knocked him out but his chin and lack of ring iq was going to cost him against Tyson.

I only said no comment and did not make any disparaging comment.

 

Sure you do unless you are the only person in the world who calls people you like as "Dog"

History is not so black and white, history takes into account other factors as well including if a fighter is so good that 99% of the times he terrorizes his opponents, wins the fight and his defeats including his main ones occurred when he was washed up.

Teddy Atlas cannot be regarded as reliable, he is still upset and hurt that Tyson refused to leave Cus D Amato and go with Teddy Atlas and has since held a major grudge and hatred for Tyson. Boxing fans and the fact that Tyson will never be forgotten as a boxer and fighter truly dictates Tyson's legacy.

 

Tyson's mother was a prostitute and his father was a pimp. Tyson was sexually abused as a child.

Tyson had to put on tremendous weight and muscle mass as a young kid to become a heavyweight at the age of 19. This is something unlikely to be done or seen again

Tyson being a puncher had problems with his hands as well

Tyson was robbed against Tillman and denied the opportunity to go to the Olympics because of that.

This was more Mayweather's doing with his interviews, controversial statements and how he comes across to tv reporters, media.

Tyson was a small heavyweight with a very limited reach, short height and he was fighting guys with bigger heights, weights and reaches. Everyone back in the day was amazed at how such a small guy was able to terrorize and petrify much bigger guys and this is something unlikely to be seen again.

Tyson was behind against Botha all 5 rounds, he was struggling with his timing, ring rust and the fact that he was no longer the same fighter he used to be before he got that right hand in. Floyd has never been dropped and has never touched the canvas in his entire career.

Tyson was rocked by Bruno, beaten by Ruddock to almost being stopped but came back to win.

I have no issues with this, for me Floyd is an ATG. I just don't like his personality outside the ring but that is fine.

Ruddock was an elite opponent at the time whom everyone was avoiding but Tyson fought him twice in brutal wars in non-title boughts.

Mayweather was not dropped by Juddah, that was not ruled as a knock down. Tyson only got dropped very late in fights after taking an absolute beating, history is not all black and white. Everyone knows that you have to drop a mountain on Tyson to drop him very late in a fight and he eventually wen't down after the very end of the fight when the result was a forgone conclusion. His ability and heart to take punishment will not be discounted.

Again i never denied Mayweather being an ATG but the fact is Mayweather never got off the canvas to win a fight, that should be taken literally and should not his ATG standing right? Not in my book and hence therefore the fact people will not be black and white on Mayweather should apply to Tyson as well.

Tyson broke his knee against Danny Williams in round 1 and carried on fighting with a bad knee for the next 4 rounds when this was an injury which puts athletes out of action for a year. You can't fault Tyson for not being in bad situations like cuts, injuries, swelling for victories, inability to make adjustments when 99% of the times he never needed those things. History is not all black and white in that regard

 

Nah, that was Douglas taking a dive to be honest, people who get knocked out dont get their heads back up as normal and then go back to lie down again. Douglas that night chose to quit against Holyfield but the reason why he got up 13-14 seconds later against Tyson because he knew that Tyson was ripe for the taking throughout the whole fight.

 

People who get knocked out don't reach for their gumshield and pull it out, you can wipe the Etienne fight off of Tyson's knockout record.....

 

I see the Tyson nuthugging has got out of control since my vacation.

 

I feel Ettiene was a lucky punch tbh

 

I’ll keep this short. Your idol lost to a 42 to 1 underdog. Explain that to me again and explain to me how anything ANY heavyweight titlist in history, including your favorite pugilist specialist, ever did that was worse than your idol’s epic failure against a 42 to 1 underdog.

 

Plenty of upsets in the sport

Morrison vs Bentt

Holyfield vs Moorer

Lewis vs Mccall and Rahman

spring to mind.

 

I do like Tyson. I like him even more now that he has acknowledged that he wishes he would have done things differently, in his professional and personal life.

Tyson had a very special run. He also achieved a feat that will last as long as I live. I’m 42, so you do the math on how long I think that may be.

I understand your insistence on defending Tyson against my critique of him and ADVERSITY. However, your dismissal of Atlas’s assessment is laughable. Atlas was there from the beginning of Tyson’s development as a boxer. He Knew his strengths and his weaknesses through and through. More importantly, he understood the limitations of Tyson’s weak psyche just as well. Unless you were there, I don’t think you can dispute Atlas’s critique.

I’m sure you will agree that boxers are very proud people. This is why they often fight on past their best days. Holyfield the former Olympian is one such fighter, as you stated. That said, don’t you find it strange that a fighter as proud as Tyson has never refuted Atlas’s statements about his WEAK character, either in print or to his face.

Atlas stands behind his assessment. Tyson knows the truth. Video doesn’t lie...enjoy.

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I agree with you 100%. However, none of these guys were 42 to 1 favorites when they lost.

 

Tyson apologized for whatever happened b/w him and Atlas niece back then. Tyson has also responded to Atlas's non-stop criticism that Atlas played a crucial role in his development as a boxer when he was young and upcoming but also has said that Atlas was upset with him because he refused to leave Cus for him and to take Atlas on as his lead trainer.