Mike Tyson had a better career than Larry Holmes.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by NoNeck, Jun 21, 2021.


Page 12 of 76
  1. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

    52,181
    27,645
    Jan 3, 2007
    Arguably or not... He DIDN’T beat Bowe. And against Tyson he hadn’t beaten a quality opponent in three years and in the interim lost to Witherspoon and underperformed against three journeyman.
     
    mr. magoo, Jun 22, 2021
    mr. magoo, Jun 22, 2021
    #166
    robert ungurean likes this.
  2. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    58,747
    21,593
    Nov 24, 2005
    Actually his trainer walked out on him before the fight and cited "lack of discipline" as the reason. If that happened to Tyson before a loss, you'd be all over it as an excuse.
    Tubbs had done nothing since losing to Witherspoon, he beat a couple of third-raters and I think he was knocked down in one of those fights.

    It's funny how you're all about "context" when someone using FACTS against your argument.
    You keep moving the goal posts.
     
    Unforgiven, Jun 22, 2021
    Unforgiven, Jun 22, 2021
    #167
    MaccaveliMacc, Claude, Bokaj and 2 others like this.
  3. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    29,585
    20,142
    Apr 3, 2012
    One notable difference is that Tyson would've taken out Dokes in about a round Dokes is also a weird case because didn't get any high profile fights in thr second part of thr 80s until Holyfield in 89. And Holyfield was in the line-up for Tyson after that.

    I also tend to give Tyson more leeway here since he unified all theee belts and won lineal, which is in contrast to how Holmes approached his career.
     
    NoNeck, Jun 22, 2021
    NoNeck, Jun 22, 2021
    #168
    Sangria likes this.
  4. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    29,585
    20,142
    Apr 3, 2012
    Are you suggesting that Holmes be given a pass for not unifying and skipping a handful of the best fighters in his era because Tyson fought a former champion who Holmes declined to fight?
     
    NoNeck, Jun 22, 2021
    NoNeck, Jun 22, 2021
    #169
    Sangria likes this.
  5. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

    17,162
    16,924
    Jun 9, 2007
    Instead of trying to be right just read the book. It's all there. Terrible addiction for decades
     
    robert ungurean, Jun 22, 2021
    robert ungurean, Jun 22, 2021
    #170
  6. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

    52,181
    27,645
    Jan 3, 2007
    surely this isn’t “ speculation “ I’m reading.
     
    mr. magoo, Jun 22, 2021
    mr. magoo, Jun 22, 2021
    #171
    MaccaveliMacc, Bokaj, Unforgiven and 1 other person like this.
  7. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    29,585
    20,142
    Apr 3, 2012
    The other book is also there. It's the one where they interview former Tyson oppoenents. It's also the book that Pinklon was interviewed for without financial incentive.
     
    NoNeck, Jun 22, 2021
    NoNeck, Jun 22, 2021
    #172
  8. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    29,585
    20,142
    Apr 3, 2012
    I think it's factual to say that Tyson tolerated The Smash and beat Ruddock twice whereas the same punch put Dokes into orbit.

    Have you seen those videos of Holmes sparring Ruddock? I wonder if that influenced why Holmes never went looking for him in the pros.
     
    NoNeck, Jun 22, 2021
    NoNeck, Jun 22, 2021
    #173
  9. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

    17,162
    16,924
    Jun 9, 2007
    I'm not getting sucked into an argument. Your comparing a book with a few pages on the man to his entire autobiography.
     
    robert ungurean, Jun 22, 2021
    robert ungurean, Jun 22, 2021
    #174
    MaccaveliMacc, Indefatigable and Glass City Cobra like this.
  10. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    58,747
    21,593
    Nov 24, 2005
    So, Mike Tyson in 1988, at what is cited as his peak, fought (RING magazine) :

    UNRANKED Holmes
    UNRANKED Tubbs
    LINEAL CHAMPION Spinks

    and followed up his famous Spinks victory with :
    UNRANKED Bruno

    FACTS. OUCH. :lol:
     
    Unforgiven, Jun 22, 2021
    Unforgiven, Jun 22, 2021
    #175
    MaccaveliMacc, Bokaj and George Crowcroft like this.
  11. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    29,585
    20,142
    Apr 3, 2012
    Think about the financial motives.
     
    NoNeck, Jun 22, 2021
    NoNeck, Jun 22, 2021
    #176
  12. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    29,585
    20,142
    Apr 3, 2012
    BTW Holmes said he was illiterate in his autobiography. Hopefully, he's fixed that by now.
     
    NoNeck, Jun 22, 2021
    NoNeck, Jun 22, 2021
    #177
  13. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

    29,585
    20,142
    Apr 3, 2012
    Yes, it's factual that he knocked out Holmes and the man who beat Holmes, and two men who Holmes declined to fight in the era of Frank's and Marvis's.
     
    NoNeck, Jun 22, 2021
    NoNeck, Jun 22, 2021
    #178
  14. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    28,662
    14,033
    Jan 4, 2008
    If you're looking at Ring ratings for the prior year, going into the year of the fight, they both beat five top 5 ranked opponents, but Tyson had six wins with the rematch win over Ruddock.

    But that doesn't give the whole picture. Occasio must have been top 5 ranked going into the fight with Holmes, likewise Berbick for Tyson. But for Holmes you also had Weaver, Snipes, Berbick, Smith, Shavers (rematch) and Witherspoon that would appear in the top 5 either the year of the fight or afterwards. Tyson had Tubbs that had featured in the top 5 some years prior and Tucker that featured the year of the fight with Tyson and then in 1992.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2021
    Bokaj, Jun 22, 2021
    Bokaj, Jun 22, 2021
    #179
    Unforgiven likes this.
  15. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    58,747
    21,593
    Nov 24, 2005
    "Tyson would've taken out Dokes in about a round" .... he should have fought him then, instead of going for lower-ranked fighters. :lol:
    I'm sure if Tyson had never had his ass handed to him by Douglas, you'd be saying Tyson would've done him in a round too.

    Tyson unified the belts because Don King had control of the division by then and was running a unification tournament with HBO.
    Tyson joined that tournament.

    With Holmes, things were different. Arum had control of the WBA for most of Holmes's reign, while Holmes was on-and-off with King.
     
    Unforgiven, Jun 22, 2021
    Unforgiven, Jun 22, 2021
    #180
    MaccaveliMacc likes this.
Page 12 of 76