Mike Tyson in the 70s

Frazier and he have an amazing trilogy where Joe belts the crap out of him TKO 8 1st fight, loses a decision in the next, and gets stopped in 6 in the rubber match.

A returning Ali wins a close but unanimous decision. Norton gets stopped in 2. Foreman stops him in 2.

On the comeback trail, he mows over Ellis and Shavers, has a bit of trouble but stops Quarry. He gets a shot at post-Zaire Ali and loses a disputed decision. He wins a few more, guys like Weaver and Spinks, then at the age of 28 gets stopped in 10 by 1979 Larry Holmes, who has to scrape himself off the deck to do so.

 

Thank you for specifying the age & year, because it matters a lot & is often neglected in this convo.

Its essentially a foot race between he & Foreman to get to a post-FotC Frazier (Tyson, like Foreman, will beat him). If Tyson can’t get to Frazier first, he’s got a problem. There’s just no way past Foreman. I’d pick Tyson to lift the title from a post-Zaire (even Zaire) Ali, but he doesn’t know he can wait for Foreman to lose to Ali. He probably blows out Norton & gets himself crushed by Foreman. He couldn’t come back at 24 from Douglas, so I don’t give him the benefit of the doubt here. He could beat Ali after Zaire, but I think if he loses to Foreman first, he finds a way to f#%k it all up.

Alternatively, if he gets to Frazier first, he will win that but has to defend against Foreman, snapping at his heels. Same result as in scenario A. He might - might - come back & KO Ali, Frazier & Norton…but he could never get past Foreman. A return to the crown would depend on getting a shot with a post-Zaire Ali. I think Tyson is disinterested enough by 1978 to be in a losing state of mind against Holmes, regardless.

 

Same deal as before - tears through the division till the fire fades, takes out Ali in at least one fight for my $ might lose the rematches. Tyson beats Frazier quick IMO… depending how they negotiate space, Frazier might be able to stay on top of him and smother his power, beating him up along the way but thats a tall ask to count on.
Mike would kill Foreman, Chuvalo, Bonavena, Lyle, Patterson, Ellis and Norton those guys can’t hang here while he’s on the up - 90s Tyson is enough for at least the sloppy or fragiler guys who try to press him like Patterson, Chuvalo, Foreman, Lyle and Norton. If Mike hangs on too long and Larry shows up he gets savaged - Young gets him if he falls apart too quickly in a Tokyo 2 with no stoppage, Frazier and Tyson actually probably share a career path bar the losses to Foreman, it’s likely Ali gets him as he unwinds same as Joe.

 

Based on what IYO does Foreman crush Tyson? That always seemed silly to me but I’m not insulting you.

 

Anyone who will move towards Foreman will get hit with extreme power. Its hard for Tyson not to run into those uppercuts, hooks and even straighter punches.

 

Depends.

Can he avoid Foreman? If he can and if he can get a title shot vs Frazier in 72, he crushes Frazier IMO.

Then his people would probably match him vs Ali. Before that, he probably crushes Norton and maybe Lyle or Quarry.

A motivated Ali just might be able to outsmart Tyson. However, Ali was no longer as fast as he had once been, if anything, Tyson would be the faster man here. Should be very close.

If he can decision Ali, he probably goes up vs Foreman. Foreman crushes him IMO. It depends on whether Cus is smart enough to keep Foreman away from Tyson.

He probably loses a rematch to Ali at this point since his confidence would go down after the Foreman fight.

So assuming we are in 1975 by now, Tyson could be 24. I think he has another 3-4 good years, winning most and losing a couple of fights. If he is matched vs Holmes at this point, i would slightly favour Larry but peak vs peak, i favour Tyson to beat Holmes.

I think Tyson had the kind of psyche where if someone like Foreman or Liston dominated him, he wouldn't quite recover.

He probably retires around 82-83. Similar record to what he had in his real career but with at least one win over Frazier, Norton, Ali, Lyle etc.

 

This is why Tyson will move his head perhaps a bit unlike Foreman.

 

There’s a good chance he gets to Frazier before FOTC if he peaks as early as he did. Tyson vs. Ali of FOTC would be interesting because though that version of Ali was rusty, he was impressive for the early rounds and likely had the chin to take Mike’s blows. It would probably be a much closer fight than 60s Ali vs. Tyson would be.

I think Foreman also gets to him as well, especially if he declines as early as he actually did.

 

If he fights Slugger Foreman of pre-Zaire. He dies. If he fights Boxer-Puncher George of Post-Zaire, I actually give Mike a really good chance becuase George almost got knocked out by Lyle due to George being too patient and not just Sluggigng it out. George is a mid-range puncher as is Mike,but Smith,Tucker has shown to blown him backwards with punches so George decapitates him and sends his head to the moon with an uppercut

I think Frazier beats Tyson. I see Tyson knocking him down a couple of times. Mike would lunge forward, Joe goes forward because of course he does, and in the clinches Joe eats ribs for dinner. When Mike gasses and slows down in the 4th, Joe starts smoking as he does and eventually knocks him out because of the close range clinching body attack, and because Mike can't infight. TKO10.

Norton dies. I always thought Norton was overrated. He was a styllistic nightmare for Ali and that is why he did anything.

Ali will not be KO'ed by Mike so Ali just waits for the 4th and beats the crap out of him. Ali KO's him in the 10-12th. Mike was knocked out in all of his losses, so I don't see how Ali would be able to.

 

Beats Frazier and Norton, loses to Ali and Foreman which means much depends on who he fights when.

 

I think he would listen to Cus and avoid Foreman. The memories of Patterson disobeying Cus and fighting Liston would be fresh in the minds of both Cus and Mike himself. So i could see a very realistic scenario where Cus pushes Mike to avoid George.

 

Good point. Cus would avoid Foreman with Tyson like he avoided Liston with Patterson.

 

Tyson knocks out Foreman in mid rounds. @Pat M tell 'em.