Mike Tyson Prime Vs Muhammad Ali 1964

I like Ali to win but I have my hesitations. Especially concerning that young unrefined 1964 rendition. That Ali was decked with a left from cooper and fought on very close terms with Doug Jones. Sure he dominated Liston but Sonny was slow in that fight. Mike Tyson was a master at slipping the jab and unloading with lefts and combos. Young Ali could still win this but it’s a dangerous proposition

 

So 22 year old Ali vs 22 year old Tyson?

Ali, maybe late stoppage.

 

Few folk referencing Ali or Clay at the time struggling with Banks, Jones and Cooper but that was in 1962 and 1963.

1964 Ali gave a virtuoso performance in defeating Liston and that was his only fight that year. 1964 Ali learned from the Banks, Jones and Cooper fights.

I'd maybe favour prime Tyson over 1963 Clay.

 

Wake up — 23 is not past prime. Tyson had taken no beatings, wasn’t old, hadn’t suffered any kind of physical setback … his fights immediately before and after Buster show no signs of him being past it.

Face it, prime Mike Tyson got KTFO by James Douglas.

 

But we're talking prime vs. prime. You can be in the prime of your career, but if you don't prepare for a fight, you're unprepared. You can be 20 without training. 25, 40, it doesn't matter. You don't train, end of story. An untrained Tyson would never have won the belt. So you might as well write, "Spinks 88 beats prime Tyson if Mike doesn't train," and I agree with you, buddy.

 

He did train. He wasn’t out of shape.

Note how many times Ali wasn’t optimally trained where he won. Yet Goldilocks Tyson has to be just right or he loses to a guy who is rated as a 42-1 underdog, a guy who had been stopped previously by guys at a way lower level.

And one is in their prime when they are in their prime — if they fail to prepare and cannot overcome it, that’s a big red flag that detracts from any thought of greatness.

 

If he was in form, how on earth did he not beat the guy who was beaten by Ferguson, Tucker, and Saverese, but beat at least 10 guys better than JBD?
Do you think Michael Jordan scored 40 points in every game?
Ussain Bolt dominated on the track for years, then had a season where his best result wasn't even in the top 10, and then he dominated again. Does that mean we should erase his records and consider those from his worst season? If you run up Mount Everest and then fall down Kilimanjaro, will you consider African mountains higher than Asian ones?
Tyson won 41 fights before he went to prison, and you're focusing on one loss. It's like me pulling a double-header on Lewis McCall and claiming that just because he lost to Oliver, he can't beat Bruno or Mercer

 

No it isn't. Age is irrelevant. You might say he was in his prime physically, but not skill wise. He started to decline after he fired Rooney and split with the Catskill team. Plus he wasn't prepared properly for the Douglas fight.

Actually, the Bruno fight did exhibit the start of his decline.

Do you know how he dropped to that weight ?? He went on a diet of soup and salad only.
Plus, it wasn't just the weight that was the issue, but the technical and mental preparation. He was not ready.

Irrelevant, since in those fights he did not display the skill that made him champion.

No he was not prime. And the thing with Rooney wasn't just technical, it was also mental. Rooney made sure he was focused and trained properly. Rooney even ran with him.

Nobody said it's someone else's fault. But the fact remains that he wasn't properly prepared.

No it's not. It's a stupid clichee people like you keep repeating. All Tyson did was to focus on boxing since he was a kid.
He wanted to enjoy himself, not be in the gym all the time. Add to that the mess that his personal life was at that point, plus his imaturity, and you get the result we saw.

Ali was given many undeserved decisions. And he would have lost by KO vs Cooper if he hadn't cheated.

Ali doesn't destroy ****. Tyson is all wrong for him.

 

Douglas promised his mother on her deathbed that he'd win the belt, he was more motivated than ever. He did not have Tyson's money or fame.
Tyson on the other hand had turmoils in his personal life and was not properly prepared.

 

There's a bit of truth to what you're saying.
But the analogies with other sports don't really work. Michael Jordan played against every team and player in the league multiple times, so you can work his average from that. Usain Bolt has times we can compare to prove his best beats everyone, and he beat everyone. It's a matter of fact.

Mike Tyson fought Douglas once and was 0-1 against him.

 

Of course, but over the course of his career, Douglas was much weaker. Ali is 1-1 against Leon Spinks, Lewis is 1-1 against McCall, Roy Jones is 1-2 against Tarver, etc. etc. You have to be a crazy hater to consider Tokyo Mike the best Mike... If Buster was just as good, why wasn't he the champion earlier? he started his career in 1982, how did he come to dominate the guy who dominated his era? either the fight in Tokyo was a coincidence, or Mike's entire dominance in the 80s was a coincidence and Tyson should have lost to Berbick, Spinks, Tubbs, Tucker, Ferguson, Frazier, Bruno, Williams etc but he accidentally dominated them.

 

Great fighters, and athletes, find ways to motivate themselves. Or if they’re underprepared, they adapt and overcome (especially to 42-1 underdogs).

Again, Goldilocks.

If he couldn’t perform without Rooney there as a security blanket, that’s a weakness. And if he was a true ATG, he would have adjusted so he could perform or find someone who could fulfill that role without slippage — Tiger Woods won The Masters by a record margin and completely retooled his swing to get BETTER … and fired the swing coach who had been with him through his run of greatness, yet still achieved at the highest level. Because he was driven — that’s an inner thing Mike apparently lacked.

Oh, he went on a diet? How can a fighter possibly perform with disciplined eating? Look what guys in lower weight classes have done while cutting weight MUCH more drastically than anything Tyson did. But if course Goldilocks needs an asterisk because he couldn’t have an extra slice of pie, lol.

All I see here are excuses. Which tells me with even more conviction that Ali clowns him, because he would get inside the mind of such an insecure guy and make him find the excuses he needed in preparation for his upcoming loss if he were fighting a real great like Ali.

 

Wake up, we're talking about Tyson and Rooney. In top form. Not one weaker than Jesse Ferguson.

 

If anything thing promising your mother on her deathbed that you would win would just add more pressure, and I provided multiple examples of personal problems that Douglas had and you say Tyson had his too but you haven't mentioned any.

 

I cant believe people are still trying to pull all kinds of excuses from anywhere they can find for Douglas vs Tyson.

Its been 36 years man, Mike got his ass kicked because the other guy simply fought better, just accept it and move on.