Mike Tyson - The Hardest puncher in History

you are correct,BUT it only proves liston had an awesome jab,not an equal or superior(to tyson) hook,uppercut or cross.

 

Plus who did he knock out with a jab and what was his chin like because im pretty certain hed kayo me with a jab too.

 

Assemble me a list of KO victims by another heavyweight such as the one Tyson put together which I listed above. That was 9 Top-10 rated Ring Heavyweights who he KO'd, one of them twice.

Who put together a similar list? Joe Louis, maybe? Anyone else?

And quoting KO percentages? Are you really that simple?

 

Look he applied power very well AND hit very hard. Does not mean he is #1, but at his peak near the very top in effective power.

Yes i want to compartmentalize power. And measure overall effectiveness, & all other aspects. I never suggested that someone hitting the hardest ever or near so is most importrant for fighting success, though it can get you far, as witnessed how well Shavers did with otherwise limited skills in ALL other aspects of his game during the golden age of HWs & soon afterwards.

 

Firstly, I wouldn't claim that Tyson is the hardest puncher. I am not even sure that is quantifiable, tho if one tried to quantify it (by KO victories over elite heavies) Tyson's name would arise very quickly.

Secondly, you can not compartmentalize power. Power is speed. Power is technique. Power is timing and anticipation. If fighter A says fighter B hits the hardest what he is really saying is that he got hit hardest by fighter B. Fighter B timed him the best and landed the shot with the greatest effect.

Lastly, Shavers actually had decent skill. What he lacked was stamina, pacing and patience.

 

Not necessarily, trust me a fighter knows when someone hits hard. The shots to the body, arms are a give away. George Foreman was barely tagged by Gerry ****ey yet he ranked him as one of the hardest punchers he faced.

 

:happy

 

I'd definitely say Wilder's right hand is more powerful than the likes of Foreman, Tyson and even Shavers..

 

I've been punched plenty of times. The guys who knew what they were doing punched the hardest.

Trust me, I know.

Also, I have heard plenty of drivel come out of George's piehole. Again, trust me, I know.

 

Foreman talks a lot of nonsense for sure. Yet I have no reason to think he had an agenda when rating ****ey.

Most any 1/2 way decent HW knows what they are doing in terms of how to throw a punch. How often & effectively they land is another matter.
I would like to hear more about Shavers having decent skill.

About this statement:

"Secondly, you can not compartmentalize power. Power is speed. Power is technique. Power is timing and anticipation".

But breaking it down to its component parts is compartmentalizing power.
The last line-that is effective power, how well delivered.

Also some like Foreman just do not rate very high in any FORMULA you use for power, as above & speed + mass. Yet they were amongst the hardest hitters ever.

it seems so simple, but though I like to break it down, i think you cannot fully account for punching power through compartmentalization due to some of it being as yet a mystery.

 

Well I'd rather believe the drivel that comes out of George's piehole than a poster on a forum.

So have I and that's not true, I've sparred with big strong lads who were crude and had no technique yet I could feel they hit heavier than some kids who knew what they were doing, trust me I know.

 

but if, as you say, its not important for fighting success that's the same as saying its not a boxing matter.
The hardest hitter of all time might never have even fought in his life by that crieria and that's satisfying to you?

You said yourself its impossible to judge the exact force each fighter generates in the moment, so why not accept that and judge the things that ARE measurable. Such as the wobbles and kayos and successes against world class opposition. make your case based on performances, resume, all the things ive listed earlier.

Arguing a point using evidence/criteria which, by your own admission, cant even be accurately assessed is illogical.

With regards to shavers, I think you're doing him a disservice and you've missed a lot of his skills.
He had great timing and underrated speed and snap right on the end of the punch. He was good at moving an opponent into just the right position for the big shots. His set ups were often clever and creative, practiced and perfected. His kayo shots were varied.
Many skills working together.
How did he always seem to be in position to land his best punches on world class fighters like ali, norton and holmes? just lucky and strong I guess.

 

in boxing, punching power is the name we give to the ability to combine every physical and mental resourse at a boxers disposal to hit a proven world class moving target flush and to hurt or kayo it.
Just like white light is the name we give to the combination of all the other colours of light.
Power is the overall result. White light is the overall result.
Speed, timing, skills and everything else are the colours that
make up the overall effect.
Can you make white light without say, the colour red? No you cant.
Can you kayo world class opposition consistently without accuracy, speed, effective delivery, skills, shot selection, timing, footwork, balance etc etc?
No you cant.
Power is the word we use for all this. It doesn't exist on its own, anymore than the top floor of a tower can exist on its own. There is only the ability to crack top chins. Power is the name we give for the ability to do this.
Can you give someone who has never consistently hurt or kayoed world class opposition the mythical title of hardest hitter in boxing history?
Maybe you could but I couldn't.
There have been so many so called up and coming bombers over the years who's 'power' mysteriously disappeared as soon as they mixed at top level.

 

I thought i may as well grace this thread with my presence.

For those who question Tysons power,

Lets firstly look at who Tyson DIDNT stop.

James Tillis - Alot is made of this fight, from idiots who dont know what theyre talking about. Tyson couldnt stop Tillis blah blah. What most people fail to mention is that Tyson was still a green inexperienced kid facing a very experienced journeyman whod been in with the best fighters of that period.

Prior to facing Tyson, Tillis had fought Weaver, Shavers, Thomas, Page, Witherspoon, Truth Williams, Frazier, Coetzee, and Tyrell Biggs .
Tyson on the other hand had fought nobody and this was his first step up. Too many times weve seen young prospects step up and lose and suffer from that against journeymen they were meant to blow away. Tyson didnt KO him, but beat him and went on to become a better fighter.

Mitch Green - Green was never knocked out in his career.

Tony Tucker - Had size and stylistic advantage over Tyson and Tyson still beat him. Tony Tucker is the only guy who fought both Tyson and Lewis and was never knocked out by either of them, the only other guy who did that was Holyfield, and Tucker arguably fought better versions of both.

James Smith - Little needs to be said on this fight, looking back im surprised Smith wasnt DQd, he did nothing in this fight except hold Tyson and threw one significant punch, which was in the last 10 seconds of the fight. Not really Tysons fault. Blame Smith

Buster Douglas - Boxed an amazing fight, but Tyson still dropped him on his ass with the one decent shot he landed.

Evander Holyfield - His chin needs no introduction. Are we going to penalise Tyson for not being able to put Holyfield away? Lewis and Foreman didnt do it either.

Lennox Lewis - Yet again, Lewis boxed an amazing fight, but both he and his trainer verbally admitted the fight could end at any point if Tyson was to land one. Watch the first round, Tyson throws a left hook off a jab and has Lewis stumbling backwards.

 

You forget to mention Tyson couldn't finish Ruddock in the 2nd bout and hit him with everything but the kitchen sink, and there's a couple more you haven't mentioned but I'll let you off because he was past it...