Mike Tyson v Gene Tunney

Jeff Smith debacle???....Request for more info please.

 

Klompton wrote this to me once:

Billy Gibson, Tunney's manager, demanded the fight with Jeff Smith be a no-decision bout because they couldn't select a pro-Tunney referee. The more one reads about Tunney's back room dealings the less respect one has for him. The guy was undeniably talented but he sure seemed to have the deck stacked in his favor whenever he could. Its even worse when you consider that Smith was several inches shorter, had a shorter reach, weighed in at 12 pounds less (despite coming in at about 11 pounds OVER his best weight), 6 years older, and turned pro more than five years before Tunney, and had a lot more mileage on the odometer. Basically Tunney had every conceivable advantage and STILL wanted to have friendly officiating

 

And I'm still waiting for a list of prime power-punching fighters that Tunney beat in his career; the ones that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he could take the punches of a Mike Tyson. The ones that procured Tunney the flattering status of having an "iron chin" and that made him fight in brutal wars of attrition that clearly displayed that golden "fighting heart" that he supposedly has. You know, the kind that Billy Conn engaged in regularly and came out on top.

Surely there are some fights/fighters you can list. Just name one prime powerpuncher who gave Gene a real chin test and gut check.

It can't be done. :-(

 

Exactly. Now how many top ranking heavyweights PERIOD did Tunney beat as compared to Tyson? Who has the more impressive HW resume?

Case closed.

Perhaps if Tunney fought 58 heavyweights (as Tyson did) then we would see a considerable number of losses on his ledger as well, eh? But he didn't. He was too busy bickering over getting his way as far as hand-picked referees go before beating up on washed-up middleweights to bother with the heavyweights.

BTW, I would pick both Holyfield and Douglas to beat careful little Gene as well.

You tell me. And after you do, be sure to state why you think it is relevant to the Tyson-Tunney fight. You think beating a one-eyed Greb nearing the end of the line is indicative of how Gene fares vs Tyson?

 

This would be equal to me saying Roy Jones could win fights by jabbing and moving, because he proved this vs Castro and Pazienza.

We have other films of Dempsey, and we have at least one expert's evaluation of Dempsey's radical change of style prior to the first Tunney bout. That wasn't a typical way Dempsey fights, it wasn't because of what Tunney did, and the way he fought allowed Tunney to use more footwork effectively, not vice versa. It wasn't that Tunney's supposed ring generalship or footwork skills made Dempsey look so bad. Both things were blown out of proportions after Dempsey's fights. He wasn't that clever and he wasn't constantly moving with jab and counters in his other fights. Start researching what was written about him before 1926 and you will see a very different fighter than what people thought he was after the fights with Dempsey.

 

Indeed it does. Take a close look at it and you'll see how unimpressive it is. I've already stated my reasons.

And Tunney's HEAVYWEIGHT resume is laughable compared to Tyson's.

You're implying that Tyson was protected? How so?

In name value? No. Conversely, you think a washed-up Dempsey, Carpentier (a washed-up light-heavy who was at the end of his career) and a washed-up Gibbons (in the last fight of his long career; a man whom Tunney admitted he avoided when Tommy was at his best) to the best Tyson beat? How do you reckon those aged versions of Carp and Tommy last against Pinklon Thomas or Tony Tucker? Why do you even bring up Jimmy DeLaney as if he were some big name? Was he better than Tyrell Biggs?

Loughran? Oh, you mean the Loughran who was at a 10 lb disadvantage (Gene's favorite type of situation), a huge experience disadvantage (3 years vs Tunney's 7 years) and who STILL managed to hold the mighty Tunney to a draw? The Loughran whom Tunney mysteriously never fought again? THAT Loughran??

Greb? Tunney also LOST to Greb. He only got the better of him after Harry was getting old.

Yes, I would say that the best Tyson fought would handily beat ALL of those guys at the time Tunney fought them. Or maybe you think a 161 lb Loughran gives a hiding to a 218 lb Carl Williams?

P4P? Perhaps. Head-to-head? Tony Tubbs would have smacked him silly. Thomas and Biggs would have annihilated him. I would even take Michael Spinks to give him a hiding, too.

Pretty much, yeah. I've already showed you the facts regarding old Carp and old Gibbons. Throw in old Jeff Smith, Leo Houck, Whitey Wenzel and Fay Keiser (who gave your Tunney a rough fight). The facts are the facts. Don't take my word for it. Look it up. If after doing so all you can continue to do is come back with little laughing emoticons, I'll know I've made my point with you.

Hardly. The names are more impressive. But for the most part, they're just names. Tunney licked faded former stars. When you look closer and actually STUDY that resume, Tunney's ledger loses its luster.

Based on the fact that he's a lot bigger, a lot stronger and has much more HW experience. Tunney works off the jab and he would never get past that long jab of Douglas's. And if he did, all Buster would have in his face would be a scrawny, blown up light-heavy with a pop-gun offense. Buster would laugh at Tunney's best and blast him out of there.

Gene was a great light-heavy. At heavyweight? Not even close.

No, he didn't. And the fact that you're repeating this discredited myth shows me that you haven't been paying attention and haven't done your homework. You're merely regurgitating the fashionable opinion on Tunney. Go read the Tunney-Louis thread (or any number of threads dealing with the Greb-Tunney series). That should clear up this misguided notion.

 

Here you go: ***********.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=458433&page=2

 

I agree with your conclusions about Tunney’s style and the evolution thereof, but lets not put two and two together and make five.

Is what we see on film in the Dempsey fights representative of Dempsey’s style?

No, I don’t personally believe it is.

Would he adopt the same strategy if he fought Tyson?

I can’t see him concluding that anything else was likely to work better.

 

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