Mike Tyson vs. Comeback Foreman

King was just greedy and having another fighter in a fight who was promoted by a rival promoter was just less money for him.

Foreman had vacated his title before 95, but was also promoted by a rival promoter.

Tyson was in training for Holyfield when he went to jail. He forced King to make the fight.

 

My apologies for that, Pete, but a few days had already elapsed when I spotted your comment about waiting for me, and I was a bit drowsy from a huge restaurant Sunday brunch, so I wasn't up to completely satisfying your thirst (or mine) for chewing up this subject matter. (In fact, the mental energy still hasn't returned as I would prefer.) However, what you had to add was good enough that I think I'll rip it off:

Foreman is a tank! Foreman could take whatever Mike could give. When Mike would see:yikes this he would ****:scaredas:himself! Foreman would demolish Mike with his LETHAL uppercuts while Mike would be launching in. Mike knew this and that's why he wanted no part of Foreman.

(Damn, Pete, you don't need my help here. You're kickin' ass all by your lonesome, but I have no problems with helping you gang up on Tyson fans.)

Early in round two of Foreman-Cooney (at 6:12 of the youtube video I reviewed), we can hear Merchant commenting that, "George didn't need this fight to fight Tyson....he was going to get it anyway. He's risking EVERYTHING!" With Foreman's size, lack of speed, porous defense and aggression, he was sure to get hit solidly, and early by the fast staring Cooney. Gerry drove right through him with that short inside hook, and the placement hardly could have been better.

Unlike Smith, Holmes and Tucker, Foreman would have been going right after Tyson from the opening bell. Every single forward step would have been George's, every one in retreat by Tyson.

Foreman was under trained for Stewart, dropped him twice early anyway, and Alex was 6'3-1/2' with a 78-1/2" reach. Evander has a 78" reach at 6'2-1/2." Morrison is 6'2-1/2" with a listed 76" reach (according to issboxWRECK). Tyson is a Pattersonesque 5'10" or 11" with a 71" reach. Mike isn't sticking or hooking and moving on George like Morrison did and Cooney tried to do.

What Alex Stewart exposed was Foreman's heart. (Does anybody truly believe Mike could last the distance, let alone pick up a win, in a disfiguring war like that? George got up to knock out Lyle. The fire hydrant famously never did this against anybody, and Foreman would **** on him like a dog.) Tyson wouldn't be fortunate enough to get a poorly toned George taking him lightly, and he's certainly not breaking him down into submission.

Generally speaking, the greats are hell in rematches, but Mike can hardly be said to have improved in his returns with Ruddock and Holyfield, only with an aging Bruno who promptly entered retirement. At his best, he was dominant, but was he more bully than bulldog when the going got rough, somebody who couldn't take the heat when it really mattered?

Mike's broad shoulders would be one of George's favorite targets for planting his mitts and shoving away. Foreman was just about the last fighter on earth to square up against like that, and I really don't like the peek-a-boo posture in that situation. Tyson would be exposing both sides of his body to wrecking ball lefts and rights.

Again, if it comes down to guts and determination, Foreman never stopped coming against Holyfield, Stewart, Morrison and Moorer. Projecting a Tyson knockout win represents a considerable leap of faith when considering the fact that George was never floored or stopped during his comeback. Foreman was certainly not going to freeze up if they did face off, like so many of Mike's opponents did. George did have a sense of his limitations, and was up front with the declaration that he wouldn't consider taking on Lewis, but never expressed such reservations about facing Tyson. He knew Mike's style and stature played directly into his hands.

Look at Tyson going the distance with Green, Tucker, Smith and Tillis. He's going to knock Foreman out? Really? A far bigger and infinitely more powerful man physically who's guaranteed to shove him back and around? This is somebody with a granite chin, somebody who can take a better shot than Tucker, Smith and Tillis put together, somebody who never gave up during his second career. (Even in Kinshasa, he was getting up as Zack Clayton finished a count which lasted an unusually short and exact ten seconds.)

Tyson was gifted with a solid chin, but how does that help him when his kidneys are getting whacked, with like what buckled Qawi to the ground?

If Tyson wanted his titles back, why didn't he go after Foreman following George's upset of Moorer? I'm sure Foreman would have been delighted to give him a shot.

 

King didn't want Holyfield because at the time he was unable to secure promotional rights on Evander knowing that if Tyson lost that he loses control of the titles. Remember Holyfield was a Main Events fighter and Lou Duva was not going to give in to Don King. King knew that and knew that all too well. Additionally, the potential disputes between the networks would have put King in an awkward position where they hold his feet to the fire.

In the end on Tyson's insistence, the Tyson vs. Holyfield fight was being made rather than the Tyson vs. Ruddock III which King wanted.

As expected TVKO (HBO's PPV arm) ended up winning the bid for the fight. Thing about it was, it was right after King and Tyson stopped doing business with HBO and moved onto Showtime. Showtime at the time wouldn't have been able to outbid HBO as the premier network to host the large events and this was manifested by the fact that they ultimately became the network to host the Tyson vs Holyfield fight in Nov 8, 1991.

As for after prison Tyson vs. Foreman.

That fight was even less a possibility. 1995 when Tyson came out of prison Foreman had no belts. He was still the lineal champion but he had no belts around his waist. In addition there were other super fights out there waiting for Tyson that would have generated more money for him.

The possibility of a Mike Tyson vs. Riddick Bowe fight was supposed to be a $100 million fight.

Not to mention, as Tyson's promoter King wanted desperately to get the belts back as soon as possible so that he can maintain control. A Foreman fight would have been a diversion post prison and secondly it wouldn't have been the richest fight out there.

@ AnthonyJ74: Good Post.
@ Lefthook31: As usual good post.


@ Reznik: Thank you for the compliment. I do think that it would have helped Foreman's career tremendously had he beaten Tyson and it would have been nice to see but I can understand why we never saw it. I think prison prevented him from making more fights that we would have loved to see:

@ Duodemun: Tyson was in prison when Foreman upset Michael Moorer. And by the time he came out of prison Foreman had no belts around his waist.

From 1992-1995 Tyson would have likely fought:

Holyfield*
Morrison*
Mercer*
Holmes II*
McCall*
Bowe
Tucker*
Lewis
Foreman*
Moorer*
Douglas II



* denotes fights that would have been very likely to happen.

 

Agreed. Foreman came out of retirement to get in the ring with the guy, afterall.

Foreman shoves and muscles the guy where he wants him to be. Then he punches. Or jabs him there. Then it's uppercuts with both hands and George can even throw a perfect left uppercut off his lead foot. 4 punches to worry about & 5 if you include the jab. That's a lot for Tyson to think about and he isn't a guy that ever changed tactics or showed ringsmarts during fights he was losing to turn the tides.

Like yourself, I sure don't like that peekaboo against certain styles. It is especially bad whenever backing up and is really only effective going forward. Foreman's shoving and designed punches to the left shoulder would have Tyson taking 2 steps to re-position himself. And by that time, that's when George fired off his wrecking balls and those left hooks/right hands/uppercuts are tough to eat at that range.

Another thing with that peekaboo is that it's all on a count. dip left, dip right, dip left, punch. Spring up to punch. Predictable & a corner man like Dundee is going to have his guy looking for it. You throw a shot to where Tyson is going to be, not where he's at.

Tyson also throws a lot of lead right hands from the outside and falls in after throwing them. I sure don't like that habit against this guy. You can get away with it against the Ruddocks of the world but it's a fatal flaw against a George Foreman.

 

Perfect stuff.

I forgot that comment. It's interesting, but because Foreman was garnering loads of attention regardless of him knocking out tomato cans. He was becoming more and more relevant as a story and of his name in and of it self AT FIRST. It would've been a lucrative fight.

This is a strong point. I don't think Tyson is going to stick and move. I don't think he has the height or option. He fights in one way, and he's awesome at fighting in that way. For him, though, his style plays right into Foreman's court. Foreman's uppercut would be a huge key, as that stiff jab would be. I don't see how Tyson use this fight as a guideline to what Mike can do. Is Mike really going to be the Bonecrusher Smith fight? The most exciting heavyweight run, turn his back (Possibly illegal), hit and then move. I also think the Foreman of the Holyfield fight was a tad bit better... at least his performance was better than in the Morrison fight. I think Foreman did not expect Morrison to backpedal. I thought he found the fight to be tailor-made for him but Morrison fought a little uncharacteristic. Foreman got blindsided by this.

:happy Magnificent stuff.

Foreman wanted the mega-fight with Tyson in 1995. Shame. Imagine if the tank that was Foreman chopped Tyson down. His status would've become even more legendary. Tyson knew better though.

 

Which does demonstrate that Mike could have chosen to accept Foreman's challenge if he truly wanted to.

Yes, but until Briggs, George was widely considered the lineal champion, and the public recognition was certainly his. Briggs was almost universally dismissed as a robbery, so even after that, Foreman-Tyson would have been promotable.

Holyfield was indeed scheduled prior to the conclusion of Tyson's trial and incarceration (triggering vociferous protests), but a rib injury Mike suffered in training shelved this.

Larry wanted no part of Mike at this stage of his career, having already shared the ring with him, and candidly admitted in a televised interview (with evident anxiety) that, "Mike Tyson is very hard for me," providing an excellent analysis of exactly why Tyson gave him such difficulty. Larry wanted Foreman, while George wanted Mike. Still, money talks, and King might have been able to entice him with another huge payday, but Holmes may have vetoed a rematch anyway, wanting to go out a winner (which he ultimately did against Beanfart).

Mike wasn't a true infighter, while Bowe was the best tall infighter of any super heavyweight of the era, so I agree with you leaving the asterisk off of this one. Tyson-Bowe was not likely to occur. I would have expected him to be eager for redemption against Douglas though.

 

Comeback Foreman taking out Tyson is the geatest media hype myth of modern boxing.

You are sheep.

 

Bringing it back out. Article on ESB.

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/boxing-news/lotierzo1609.php

Important part of it.

It didn't have to be a title fight. Bob Arum dreamed of this fight. George Foreman dreamed of this night. Mike Tyson had nightmares about this fight. :yep


So guys, King supposedly wanted the fight by many accounts at the time. It was a very lucrative deal around the time of the Douglas fight. Apparently Mike didn't want it. I don't buy King held him back because of promoting conflicts. The money and public interest were huge. Holyfield vs Foreman was a huge PPV draw. I think it's in the top 10 in terms of PPV of all time. Imagine Foreman vs Tyson? That could've broke records.

 

Apparently Tyson thought Foreman was a sheep on a wolf's clothing.

 

Sure because Tyson had never retreated against any other fighter in the past, he was all of sudden going to retreat. Why? Was Foreman faster and better than anyone Tyson had faced in the past?

And what Tyson exposed in KO1 of Alex Stewart was that Stewart wasnt in his league.
And when was Foreman not poorly toned in his comeback?

Tyson was certainly on decline, but it can hardly be said he was any worse, he beat Ruddock one sidedly.

Tyson never stopped coming forward against Holyfield or Douglas, whats the point? They were both still getting a butt whooping.

He was certainly shook up badly against punchers who didnt punch as hard and fast as Tyson. Whats to say the KO couldnt come quicker as Tyson would engage him with his power shots far more than a guy like Morrison did?

Look at Foreman losing to every skilled fighter he faced. Hes going to knock out Tyson? Really? A far stronger, faster fighter who is guaranteed to punch him harder than hes been hit and push a fight pace he would have trouble dealing with? Could Foreman even deal with the pace and take the punches Ruddock took in the second fight? He was battered around the ring by Holyfield. Tyson would be fighting a similar pace only punching harder.

Sorry no comparison to a 5'5 former cruiserweight.

Actually the real question is if Foreman wanted the Tyson fight so bad, why didnt he try and hold onto his title after getting his ass kicked by Axel shultz and give him the mandated rematch rather than vacating? The truth is Foreman didnt care about anything but money, and big money fights. Thats why he hauled ass as soon as his grill took off. Foreman was a great salesman, he fooled everyone into thinking he could beat the Tysons, and Holyfields and Bowes, as he took shalacking after shalacking against guys that Tyson was blowing out in one round. Foreman was a great fighter, but not in his comeback, and he showed his limitations any time he stepped up or even faced a fighter that gave him the slightest bit of respect.
Had Foreman actually beaten someone soundly of merit, I would have thought maybe there was a chance, but winning a few rounds against Holyfield and looking good against Bert Cooper didnt do it for me, because even a fighter like Cooper and Alex Stewart looked good in spots against Holyfield, but all of sudden Tysons chin would be reduced to Moorer china, and his skills and ring smarts to that of Bert Cooper and he would be soundly beaten and stopped by old Foreman? Nah..

 

Not exactly. The majority of the time fighters typically respond in post fight interview's when asked who they want to fight next and the typical response is "I leave that to my promoters..."

Considering the relationship that Tyson had with King, its pretty clear that King controlled the situation the majority of the time. A one off scenario doesn't quite tell the story.

Ok two things here:

1. Before prison Tyson fought Ruddock twice with the rematch being made to correct the controversial stoppage in the first fight. After Ruddock he pursued Holyfield to get back the titles. Can't fault him on those choices. Had he been acquitted on all counts he would likely fought Holyfield in March of 1992 according to Duva and after that a Foreman fight could have been materialized.

2. After prison, Foreman seemed like an afterthought. So much had happened between 1992-1995 that a Tyson Foreman fight would have really been an inconvenience. Remember during that time the fights that were presented to Tyson that unfortunately never materialized was a fight with Tommy Morrison and a $100 million doller super fight with Riddick Bowe. Even Lewis was offered $13.5 (even though he turned it down and eventually fought Mercer) for a Tyson fight.

Point is post prison Tyson vs. Bowe, Holyfield, Lewis, Morrison or against a title holder generated far more interest than Tyson vs Foreman.

I suppose George Foreman was ducking Larry Holmes because he would have lost? Or was Foreman simply being a pragmatic and taking on fights that were either very easy or had significant rewards? Tyson offered a significant reward that would have come in the tune of 8 figures.

Foreman didn't need Larry (or so he thought) and Mike didn't need George.

I suppose that's true.

Being a the best tall infighter doesn't make him a better infighter than Mike Tyson, nor does it mean that he has a clear advantage over Mike.

If this fight didn't happen it would have been because of Rock Neuman.

A Douglas rematch was pursued vigorously. It simply failed to materialize. Because of contractual disputes between Douglas and King.

This content is protected

 

How was Tyson not a true infighter? How many of his fights ended by inside shots or from an intial shot inside? Lots!

 

Foreman was coming after a Moorer win. Holyfield was coming off a Moorer and Bowe loss. He was seen almost as done. Morrison was not more interesting for the public than Foreman in 95. This is just a lie.

Nobody is saying Tyson ducked Foreman. They are saying he wanted no part of him, which is backed up by not only testimony, and a multitude of credible sources, but is also shared by thought by many here due to styles. Foreman vs Tyson could've happened before Tyson fought Ruddock. In fact, it was being reported that the fight could very well happen. King wanted it, Foreman wanted it still, but Tyson did not want it. He would have made for more against Foreman than Ruddock. It probably would've gotten him closer to a shot at Holyfield. He took the easier route.

 

Tyson was a mid-range bomber. He stood upright and was often uncomfortable on the inside. In fact he clinched repeatedly against taller opposition while on the inside. It was like without room he felt uncomfortable and could somehow be damaged. He could've put his right leg back and been stronger inside to get leverage. Tyson only really did inside work in the Tubbs fight. He was definitely not an true in-fighter.

 

Just got an email response from one of Tysons former trainers who I still chat with. He said Tyson and King both wanted the fight and that it was Foreman who wouldnt sign his contract because it allowed King to Copromote Foreman in a series of future fights should he win.