Mike Tyson vs Evander Holyfield in 1991

-Of course Tyson had better balance against Ruddock than Holyfield. The reason for that is pretty apparent.

-telegraphed counterpuncing off of Tysons wild misses. I don't know, it seems like you were downplaying Evander by suggesting he somehow telegraphed his counters..which is just absurd and impossible.

-As far as Mike telegraphing...he was was no less predictable against Holyfield than Ruddock. Of course Evander was in a much better position to take advantage of Mike's strategic short comings than a big lug that just wanted to uppercut him from outside all night. The only time your going to find a real drastic variance in Mike's attack is 86-88 where he jabbed more to get inside.

 

No Holyfield fought a great fight in fact I believe the brawl happy Holy of 91 could very well have had a tougher time with Tyson even in 96.
Look when a fighter is loading up with one big shot and there's nothing else coming it's easy to handle. Tyson was poor in the Ruddock fights and that's why Ruddock was good in spots because he became a pretty good counterpuncher himself, and he would have certainly been able to expose Tysons mistakes just as easily at that time because there was far more predictable offense coming from Tyson in 96

The argument is old. A four year layoff is going to be a hard road back for any fighter especially an offensive short brawler..

 

Or is just acknowledging what's clearly shown right there on film.

But that would ruin a good story, wouldn't it?

 

This would be a war. It would look a lot different then the 96' fight as well. It wouldn't be a hug-fest, and Tyson wouldn't be looking for the same one punch over and over. He'd be going to the body and throwing combinations. Tyson was a tough dude, he showed against Ruddock he can take huge, sustained punches and walk right thru them. It's no cakewalk for either fighter.

 

Mongoose tearing it up like usual.

 

yeah its pretty ridiculous to say there's no different from a 96 tyson and 91. There are obvious differences. Ya he beat up Bruno but Bruno was scared shitless and Tyson was loading up one big right hand bomb at a time. In 91 he was at least throwing combinations and going to the body a little. He also had the stamina to go 12 hard rounds which he didn't in 96. Holy beat that version of Tyson because he was completely one dimensional that point. Watch the 96' Holy fight and Tyson basically threw the same one punch over and over for 11 rounds. The only time he actually went to the body and put a combination together he hurt Holyfield (5th round).

 

NOT EVEN CLOSE................TYSON WAS LEAPING IN MID AIR AGAINST BRUNO IN 96.....HEAD HUNTIN......AGAINST RUDDOCK....BRUTAL BODTY PUNCHING................ITS THAT SIMPLEatsch

 

tyson was 30 by the time of the ist holyfield fight not 29 .

 

Tyson only really knew one way to fight - coming forward throwing bombs. Against a man who could roll with his punches, keep him off balance, counter and back him up he'd have absolutely no plan B. Holyfield could do all that.

The bull**** that flies around about what Tyson did and didn't do in his prime and post-prime is ridiculous. A lot of the flaws that his fans are quick to detect post-'88 or post-'91 somehow get completely ignored or denied when shown in his prime fights.
It gets boring.

Yes, Tyson was more disciplined, and more intense, hence more effective, prior to '89.
Yes, the 4-year-layoff between '91 and '95 didn't help.
But, No, he wasn't a "completely different fighter" in '96 from the one who faced Ruddock. (in fact he wasn't much different at all)
An No, he would have not have beaten Holyfield in 1991.

Compared to Holyfield, Tyson was profoundly one-dimensional - far less adaptable, in his style and in his mental game.

 

Well that was his style, just as it was Fraziers, just as it was others to box and move from the outside. Just because a guy can box and move and slug doesnt necessarily make him better. If one is a master of their style and can adapt by punch selection and movement, it shouldnt really matter what style they fight in. Thats again, the overiding point here.
Thats what started to lack in Tyson, the already predictable style, became even more predictable in its approach.
Sure on film to the average person, he was the same old Tyson steaming forward as soon as the bell rang, but that was the case in 2003 as well.

 

i know its a cliche, but i just think 'vander had tysons number...whenever they fought...holy was an extremely disciplined fighter who NEVER had an easy day at the office..he knew what it was to come thru adversity, he had the chin, the workrate and the heart to take tysons best and come back with his opwn fire....

sure, 91 holyfiedl was more likely to engage in a brawl, but even with this character flaw, i dont think he loses to tyson....evander could engage in a 12 round give and take brawl..i dont think tyson had the conditioning to do this...his fights with ruddock were intense, and give lie to the claim that tyson didnt have a great chin, but i dont think they would have the constant intensity of a 91 holy war....

tysons offense was incredible, yet his opponents were often tentative, overawed by his ferocious intensity and aura...holyfield would not afford him this split second head start.... bvottom line, ruddock gave him WARS.....holyfield, for me, even in 91 smaller, brawling mode is a much bigger beast in the ring than razor...holyfiled would triumph in an epic war...

 

This is why I believe that Tyson would defeat Holyfield in the originally planned '91 bout, as opposed to their '96 fight.

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1. Strategic/technique reasons:

Holy: Around '91 he was very easy to drag into a brawl and this would play perfectly into Tyson's style, just look at his unnecessarily tough wars with Cooper, Dokes, Foreman & Stewart. Whereas in '96 Holyfield was at his best from a technical perspective thanks to Tommy Brooks. Holy countered Tyson's predictable, singular, loaded-up, telegraphed right hands and opted to constantly grapple & out-muscle Tyson rather than brawling with him.

Tyson: In '91 he showed quality headmovement for some periods against Ruddock and also some brutal combinations, this was practically absent by '96 (& what little headmovement he did do was slow & sloppy). It is also vital to mention that in '91 Tyson possessed a great, debilitating body-attack (Holyfield is vulnerable to powerful body punching, shown by him being hurt by the three power-punches to the body Tyson landed in the fight), whereas he was basically a mindless headhunter in '96, who looked for one big punch (a terrible strategy against the titanium-chinned Holy) & had awful, ragged defense. Trainers should be noted, in '91 Tyson was trained by Giachetti who could offer solid advice in the corner, especially important when times got tough, while in '96 he was trained by incompetent fool Jay Bright.

2. Physical reasons:

Holy: Indeed young Holyfield had better stamina, speed, footwork & reflexes in '91, but he was physically far more suited for facing Tyson in '96. By then he was heavier, stronger, more durable and more powerful. These attributes were needed to absorb Tyson's power-punches and manhandle him in the frequent grappling initiated by himself. Also Holy became flat-footed as he aged, he incorporated ramming headbutts into his arsenal.

Tyson: In '91 he was supremely conditioned for 12 rounds of brutal war, this conditioning also meant better durability and recuperative abilities. I'd confidently pick Tyson to be the strongest in '91 too. Tyson had sharp timing for delivering some devestating counters in '91, but post-prison it never appeared impressive. For Holyfield I in '96 he was the worst conditioned he would be until 2001. This meant he only had a mere 5 rounds of stamina before gassing badly in the 6th.

3. Mental reasons:

Holy: Although always fighting with the mentality of a warrior, Evander was mentally even stronger in '96. After losing the titles to Moorer in '94, he was very determined to become a 3rd time HW Champion against the odds.

Tyson: In '91 Tyson was mentally properly prepared by Giachetti for long, grueling wars as seen against Ruddock. His mental preparation for a rough, tough fights can be seen as he walked through bombs (Ruddock I & II) & traded big lowblows in Ruddock II (in contrast he could barely mentally cope with one lowblow in round 6 against Holy in '96 & offered no retaliation to it or the butts). In addition, Tyson had big respect for Holy then as a great fighter, so he wouldn't have underestimated him. In '96 Tyson subscribed to the common belief that Holy was shot & washed-up, thus he expected an early round walk in the park. This is clearly what he was prepared for; just look at him get up in round 6, gassed & hurt, to become a punching bag with little will to win. It won't have helped him mentally coming back to his corner in a tough battle, to find the Don King useless circus of fools either. The mentally ill-prepared Tyson was evidently extremely frustrated & helpless to counter the dirty tactics of Holy in rounds 6 & 7, which focused on leading with his head to target the orbital bone. The '91 Tyson would not only mentally cope with butts, he'd also retaliate with lowblows & elbows.

4. Experience reasons:

Holy: Prior to the originally planned November 8th '91 bout, Holy had a record of 8-0 at Heavyweight. In the 5 years from '92-'96 Evander's Heavyweight experience increased at an exponential rate. He'd had 12 hard rounds with Holmes, 10 hard rounds with Mercer and 32 rounds of brutal war with Bowe, plus 29 (36 including Cooper in November '91) rounds with others.

Tyson: Back in '91 Tyson was a highly experience Heavyweight with a record of 40-1 compiled in 7 years. Due to his 4 year 2 month layoff (including 3.5 years rotting in prison), Tyson had only fought 17 minutes in the ring in the 5.5 years leading up to Holyfield I, meaning he was severely rusted.

 

Excellent post, especially with regards to the experience being a factor. I personally think that is probably one of the biggest reasons why Evander would have lost. He simply didn't have experience at heavyweight to successfully compete with Mike Tyson.

Mike would have stopped him in a competitive fight.

 

Holy in 5.

 

Thanks ironchamp, I agree that Tyson would have stopped Holy & it would have been a tough action-packed war.
A TKO victory for Mike between rounds 6 & 8 is the most likely senario.