Mike Tyson vs George Foreman (1991)

73 Foreman and 91 Foreman, 2 totally different. Fighters

 

wrong forum

you belong in general :hi:

 

look at Holyfield of 1991 and 1996 and tell me this guy wasn't juicing

add to that Holyfields heart problems and the Evan Fields story and i think its enough to show this guy was on something.

what always amazes me is how Holyfield walked right Tysons punches like they were tickles. Tyson barely hurt Holyfield, yes Holyfield has a great chin but he was totally unaffected by Tyson, yet in his next fight Moorer rocked him more than Tyson did. Does Moorer hit harder than Tyson? Also during the second fight even the commentators said something tk the affect of Holyfield is walking right through Tysons punches like they were nothing, they then said how can you hurt a guy whose wife deals with pain management, something fishy was going on there definitely

rjj, toney, mosely all these guys were juicing but no one in the history of boxing when through the physical changes that Holyfield did.

 

As I said, it's likely Evander juiced his entire heavyweight career. He only weighed a few more lbs in 1996 than he did in 1991. The bulk of the transformation occurred in 1988, hence the health issues possibly caused from long term use by 1994. As for Moorer hurting Evander more than Tyson did, I don't think that says much one way or the other. Bert Cooper, Michael Dokes, and George Foreman all had Holyfield rocked years before Tyson OR Moorer stepped in the ring with him.

 

Right. Foreman pushed them back, kinda similar to Berbick's approach to fighting Tyson. Foreman is also a bit slow in that department. Sure the pushing would disrupt Tyson's rhythm but it also leaves him wide open for counters. Wouldn't you agree that could be a major problem for George here?

I don't think Tyson bowls him over but he will connect, and quite often. I think Foreman would be a stationary target.

 

Tyson did connect with the first punch he threw within seconds of the opening round. Kind of woke Holyfield up. With Moorer, and to an extent Ruiz, they landed a few temple shots that wobbled Holy badly. I think Tyson was mostly connecting on Holy's chin if I remember correctly. But yeah, Holy looked bullet proof in there against Mike.

 

Taking juice would have been very un-Christianlike of Holyfield. But then again, he didn't seem to have a problem fathering numerous kids out of wedlock or striking his wife, so maybe he rationalized taking juice as a way to compete and pay the bills.

 

Foreman was so much smarter and better balanced than Ruddock in the ring. The biggest difference being the abliity to set up his power shots. Big George was a two handed threat but more importantly Foreman had that hard jab that he worked overtime in his second career.

Mike Tyson wasn`t moving his head the same way by 1991 and Foreman`s jab would most definitely be a problem for Tyson. I think it`s more likely Tyson`s eye would swell. If Tyson slides inside George could and would push him back taking away Tyson`s forward momentum.

I think for Tyson to win he would have to put some serious hurt on Foreman in the first 2 or 3 rounds before Foreman unleashed his jab and is able to use his experiance.

 

Holyfield was just far more focussed for Tyson than for Moorer. He saw Tyson as a bigger threat and performed at a higher level, totally 'in the zone'.
Of course he was juicing, but same with all his other fights.

Let's face it, Tyson was juicing in those years too. Well, for McNeeley he was certainly on something. He never looked like that before or since. One theory is he needed to take extra juice because he'd lost so much size in prison.

Actually, it would probably be wiser to try to think of 90s heavyweights who were not juicing that single out these guys. Most of them were/are.

I disagree. Holyfield had a good physique and packed on muscle and therefore looks impressive. He concentrated on his upper body, big neck, big traps. But overall he was still a modestly-sized heavyweight at 6'2 and 215.

James Toney changed far more though. I've seen Toney fatter and blubbery at 200 and then more muscular at 217 (v.Holyfield). He went from a slim middleweight to a stocky heavyweight.

Vinny Pazienza.

Shannon Briggs.

 

You seem to forget that Foreman was PAINFULLY slow in his comeback........even slower than the 70's version.

Foreman never laid out shopworn fighters like Ruddock did, see Dokes/Bonehugger, I attribute that to his lack of speed and snap, I also believe that Ruddock punch for punch hits as hard as Foreman.

Besides Moorer, who has a certified glass chin, Foreman usually could not KO qualified opponents, Stewart,Saverese or the Duke are hardly the murderous row of iron whiskers.

Once again, while Tyson would have no problem with Foreman's speed or lack of, George would be totally befuddled by Tyson speed of hand and foot.

George Foreman would take a serious beating, the counters alone would give him nightmares.

70's Foreman 50/50 fight.

Grandpa Foreman against Tyson firing on 7 cylinders in 91, Tyson KO by target practise.

BTW, old Gearge goes down, he ain't getting up, this ain't Lyle part two.

 

Well, yeah, there are problems for George as long as Tyson's in there. And there are problems for Tyson as long as George is there. That's the way I see it.

Berbick pushed Tyson back, and scored with an uppercut at one point. Berbick wasn't as strong as Foreman and didn't hit as hard though, Foreman was more brutal. I believe Foreman is more of an obstacle to tackle head on, than Berbick was.
I think Tyson was a better fighter than Foreman in the 1980s and early '90s, but the stylistic match-up evens the odds up, suiting Foreman.

I can't disagree strongly. But I think, with Tyson coming straight to him, Foreman would make it untidy and physical and ugly, and he won't be discouraged. The possibility of him stopping Tyson in his tracks and backing him up is a real one, and that's very bad news for Tyson.

 

No.

 

you right Holyfield also said he was in the zone for the Tyson and Bowe fights

Not really too familiar with Vinny Paz, but Briggs definitely was juicing.

I dont think Tyson ever took anything, against Mcneely, Tyson looked almost starved. Most of his muscle had gone, the thick neck, the arms, the shoulders. He looked chubby against Seldon and Holyfield 1, in Holyfield 2 he was in tremendous shape

The only time Tyson MAY have took something was the second Holyfield fight.

But then again, one thing about Tyson was, when he feared/respected an opponent, he trained very hard.

Most of his early career, Bruno 2, Ruddock 1+2, Holyfield 2, Lewis (yes i believe he trained very hard but just didnt have the discipline or desire left)

The only 3 guys who imo stand out as having taken something in that era (hw) was Morrison, Holyfield and Briggs. Toney was just fat

 

Tyson was ripped for McNeeley. 219 pounds I think he weighed. His definition was relatively extreme. I believe he must have been on some special juice for that one, because he came out of jail a few months earlier under-weight. They probably had him on something different.

Wouldn't surprise me if these guys were on a bit of juice their entire careers.

 

He was out of condition against Lewis. Maybe he trained hard but he was well off.

Interesting, after the Douglas fight, he admitted that he hadn't been in great shape for the Ribalta, Tucker and Tubbs fights either.

Toney twice tested positive for steroids. Even Freddie Roach admits he knew.
And while he was fat, he was certainly much bigger than a middleweight.

Botha was another juicer.

I hink 90% of the elite HWs use anabolic drugs. There's absolutely no reason why they wouldn't. It's professionalism.