Mike Tyson Vs. George Foreman

Foreman wins in 5 by T.K.O. It wold be a shootout until Tyson becomes discouraged because he can't get to Foreman, and eventually gets caught and knocked out.

 

Tyson had too short of reach and he wouldn't be able to hit Foreman with those explosive combonations. Foreman would swing away and while Tyson moves side to side he'll get hit by one of his cinderblocks. Tyson had a great chin, but has never tasted the power of Foreman in his prime. With a steady dose of punishment Tyson finally crumples in 5 and the Ref stops it.

 

I can see Tyson getting off in an exchange and I think he has a chance at getting to George early on because of his 2 fisted power and speed but I think I still give Foreman the edge here because of mental strength. Both men can ko the other but if it comes down to the trenches, I like George

 

I think my post is reflective of thier records.

Tyson was never reliant on intimidation until he felt his physical ability diminish. Just like Ali wasnt never reliant on his pre-fight hype until he lost his legs and couldnt win on talent alone.

Look at the Foreman fight where Ali is talking trash. Sure he talked trash against Earnie Terrell, but at that time he didn't need that edge in the Terrell fight against Foreman, every little thing when assessing this fight is taken into consideration from the tempature to the pro-Ali crowd, to the ropes, etc. Ali needed that edge, that psychological advantage. Look at the Lyle fight where he's clowning around hoping Lyle falls for a trap, Lyle didnt but was caught in the 11th round which was heaven sent. If you watch that fight, you cannot deny that judging the pace of the fight, it was clear that Ron Lyle was going to pull of a clear UD. Look at Shavers, that right hand that Ali took imo was one of most powerful blows that he ever took in his career and IMO he resorted to mocking Shavers and play possum to make him tentative so he would think twice about going for the Kill. Had Shavers been a better finisher, Ali wouldnt have made that 10 count. But his savvy and psychological warfare prevailed.

With Tyson there is nothing in his pre-prison career to suggest that he relied on intimidation alone. His unwavering belief in his ability and uber confidence is what won him fights when he showed up half assed. Bruno and Williams being clear examples. Now with Douglas, he didnt try to scare him or cower when he was getting beat. He took his beating all while trying to figure out a way to close the show. If you watch the fight, there is not a moment in that fight where you see any look of discouragement on his face. His blank expression was the same one that he had in the first round up until the 10th round. If you watched that fight live, and it was the middle of the 8th round, most of us had our mouths wide open almost in disbelief that Douglas can pull this off even though it was becoming more and more realistic that Tyson clearly needs a KO to win. When Tyson landed that Right uppercut dropping Douglas, I'm sure that you didnt have to be an ardent supporter to feel validated that we are blessed with Tyson who is a champion in the mold of Marciano, Louis, Ali and Holmes who overcame deficeits in unexpected challenges. Though his effort in trying to change the tide was late you can't call his determination and self belief in question.

After prison, when his body started to slow down and he was unable to pull off some of the combinations he could have done years earlier that was when intimidation became part of his game. Look at the second fight with Ruddock and you'll see foul after foul from both fighters with point deductions galore. "Funny Mathematics...." (for those who recall), Tyson never once complained or cared. Why? Because he still believed in his ability. Fight I against Ruddock, 6th Round, he gets caught with a flush smash, he didnt falter he came back with his own and in "Mayorga like" fashion offered his chin to Donovan taking another flush right in the process to close out the round. In the very next round, he stopped Ruddock.

Now, look at the first fight with Holyfield where there was lots of fouling involved but Tyson complained towards the end of round 6. It wasnt because he was losing, it was because and he knew that he is not as good as he once was and he is unable to perform like he once performed. Hell Douglas hit him on the break several times and you didnt see him going to the ref in Toyko even when he was coherent.

Thing is the Tyson mystique had finally outlived the Tyson talent and Tyson was the first to know that but to perpetuate that Tyson bandwagon he took on a persona that tried to scare opponents. Think about it, Tyson's popularity never waned in terms of PPV marketability until the public finally believed that he's no longer the guy they thought he was. Until that moment happened, his ability to draw a crowd was better than anybody in the sport. Even after Holyfield II, hell even after Lewis his ability draw was still there. There was a time Tyson was supposed to fight Oleg Maskaev in 2003 on the undercard of Lewis-Johnson (Kirk). But politics, Tyson and drama happened and Tyson had pulled out of the fight. At the time the fight was proposed ringside seats were $2600. After Tyson pulled out the ringside seats dropped to $990 even though Lewis was champ and had alraedy beaten Tyson. It wasnt until the loss to Danny Williams that his marketability faltered. Once he lost relevance as an elite fighter and was unable to carry the belief he stopped being the mean Mike Tyson. He became the tentative, babbling and to some degree eccentric man. Calling Kevin Mcbride cute, looking like a happy go lucky type at press conferences. He no longer had that intimidation thing. He dropped the persona.

Now with regards to Foreman, regardless of whether or not Tyson was actually afraid of him. It woudlnt matter, because when he was at his best, he had a level of self beilef that that wouldnt waver as a result of what his opponent is doing to him or what he thought his opponent would be able to do to him. He only cowered or resorted to dubious tactics when he felt his body is not responding, which is why his in the ring credibilty was intact pre-prison. And became sketchy post prison when he was a shell.

By the way Foreman quit against Ali not because he was incoherent, from Ali's punching but because he was mentally beaten and he didnt feel as though he had any left to offer. So Foreman isnt exactly off the hook when it comes to mental fortitude.

 

I'm not so sure that George Foreman hit any harder than Razor Ruddock, and Mike took some mighty big wallops from him. And I think Razor has a longer reach than Foreman.

 

Wow, Ironchamp that was some post. Always nice to discuss with people who are backing their opinions with ambitious arguments as opposed to ambitious mudslinging. Probably we'll never agree to 100 per cent about this, but you do have som interesting points.

With that said I believe that Ali beat Foreman in the ring, not outside it. Foreman was extremely confident and looked foused and balanced enough, but he just came against someone with too much skill and guts.

I also have a different take on the Lyle fight. Yes, Lyle was slightly ahead, but he only won the rounds Ali 'gave' to him. When Ali started fighting he seemed to be able to get to Lyle every time. Yes, he played a risky game by giving away so many rounds, but he was rarely hit with any authority and when he went down to business he succesfully ended it. Even if he hadn't he would probably have taken the remaining rounds (because it was clear he had to) and walked away with the decision.

BUT you're right when saying that he relied heavier on his psychgames later in his career. The fight against Shavers is probably the best example of that.

Anyway, it would be something to see a fight between Tyson and Foreman n their respective primes. I've always tended to give Tyson the edge in that match-up earlier, but knowing D'Amato's take on it and Tyson's own feelings about it have changed my viewpoint somewhat. It still makes for a good discussion, though.

 

Although Foreman could be vulnerable as we saw against Ali and Lyle I still would favor him slightly here. But it would not surprise me if Tyson kayoed Big George either. My gut tells me Foreman in about 5 rounds.

 

Thank you. Yes it does make for a great discussion.

It would make for a very entertaining fight, I think biggest thing about this fight people are taking too much stock about what D'mato said about the Foreman.

 

If Tyson does'nt trade power shots with Foreman he would have to stay outside and box. This means Tyson would have to out jab Foreman or eat a lot of heavy leather bombs from Foreman. This is not a recipe for success for Tyson.

 

Agreed,

and I'll also ad that Foreman had the strength to push Tyson back, as he often tended to do with smaller fighters. This would move Tyson right into midrange where George did most of his best work.

 

Interesting fight. Keep in mind a few things.

As a young man Foreman was very very fast.
Shorter, crouching, bobbing and weaving fighters were his meat. Not just Frazier. but Norton, Chuvalo, etc. He only had trouble with tall fast boxers.
The key to beating Tyson (at any age) was a heavy jab. It threw his timing off. See this in his fights with Tucker, Douglas, Lewis, and even Ruddick.
Foreman also had a very fast, and very hard upper cut. Bad news for Tyson.
Plus Tyson was knocked out but much lesser punchers than Foreman.
Tyson does not have the heart that George does. Name me one fight that Tyson came off the canvas to win?

An exciting fight, Foreman wins in 2-3 rounds, with probably both on the deck.

 

I think it's a bit unfair to question Tyson's heart. Sure, he never got up off the canvas to win a fight, but that doesn't mean the guy didn't have heart. He absorbed a beating from Buster Douglas before being knocked out late in the fight. He was pounded by the heavy hands of Lennox Lewis before finally being KO'd late in the fight. He fought a rough and tumble series of fights with Razor Ruddock, taking some punches along the way that would have felled lesser fighters, but Tyson came out on top. And George Foreman could have just as easily been KO'd by Ron Lyle if only one more punch had landed along the way. And that wouldn't mean George had no heart, either.

George Foreman may well have beaten Tyson. I don't think he would have, but I can't fault those who think he would. George was a monster, and he would have beaten alot of great fighters. But I still think people are underestimating Tyson's quickness, speed, and boxing skill. Tyson would have the capacity to hit and hurt Foreman in ways that Joe Frazier didn't. Just as you say Foreman was at his best against short, come forward sluggers, I also think Tyson was at his best when fighting big, strong, lumbering guys who weren't the best boxers. And Foreman wouldn't hold like Bonecrusher did.

 

I've been called a ****** before, haha . however jackass you obviously don't know much about Foreman, or his early career. Joe Frazier said "It was Foremans speed that surprized me, especially his jab"
George Chavalo said "Foremans biggest assest is the speed of his hook off the jab". Read a few books, watch a few films and you'll see what i'm talking about genius.

 

Tyson TKO9. :good

 

Nice tactic.

Of all the clips you could have shown, you pick the 8th round of a grueling fight, in which he was thoroughly exhausted.