Mike Tyson Vs. George Foreman

Same exact thing happened against Danny Williams.

 

Snorlaaaaaaaaaaaaaaax!

 

Do you think a 1973 Foreman would have KO'd a 1993 Morrison?

He was only 13 years from his prime? Foreman was 20 years removed from his peak performance. Plus, Foreman didn't get knocked out by Morrison, despite the fact that Morrison was a much better hitter (and overall boxer) than either Williams and McBride.

Foreman, when 20 years past his best prime and grossly overweight, lost a 12 round decision against a very underrated boxer. He didn't land a big shot all night and consequentely didn't knock Morrison out. Nothing Morrison (a seriously hard puncher) landed on this ancient fat old Foreman came close to knocking him down.

If you're going to hold the Morrison fight against Foreman, I cannot see how you can avoid holding the McBride and Williams fights against Tyson. Personally, I don't hold either against either man, which is the sensible perspective.

 

...Your next avatar should be thus:

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Silly rabbit. Trix are for kids.

 

Yeah, George really showed how good he was at 46 when he "beat" Schultz! And George was not the world heavyweight champ from 94-97. He was champ from November of '94 until he was stripped the following year for refusing to give Axel Schultz - the handpicked patsie that George chose to fight in order not to risk losing his title and jeopardize a Tyson fight - a rematch!

 

You didn't answer my question. What "proof" or "evidence" do you have that leads you to believe that Foreman hit harder than Tyson.

And, as far as Tyson not recovering like other greats, who do you mean? Joe Louis was hurt early and ultimately knocked out by Max Schmelling. Cassius Clay got saved by Angelo Dundee after Henry Cooper sent him into orbit! Tyson was never surprised and beaten leading up to his first title shot. And, saying that Tyson didn't recover after being hurt like other greats is a double-edged sword. Mabye a lot of that has to do with the fact that Tyson never got hurt against the guys that he fought up until Douglas. He blew through his title challengers. If you want to say that Tony Tucker and Frank Bruno hurt Tyson briefly, I won't argue. But Tyson's skill and defensive ability had a lot to do with him never having to battle back after being hurt. It might be better to hold the guy who never gets hurt in the first place above the guy who does get hurt. Boxing skill and defense means a lot!

 

Must someone's opinion be predicated on evidence? That would be an awful burden on us all. I didn't summon both into a lab to measure the PSI of their shots if that is what you mean. What I do have is observation that Foreman's shots were thunderous. I have the testimony of his opponents, like Ali and Chuvalo, who said that he hit enormously hard. I have a crazy KO percentage and I have film like this:

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The evidence is staring you in the face. I have already posted facts about Tyson's losses. He never went down and got up and won. Louis did. Ali did. They faced real adversity and overcame it. Tyson may have been stunned by a Bruno or a Ruddock shot, but was allowed to recover. What is hard to understand about the argument?

Answer these, please:
Which HWs should be favored to beat Tyson?
Which HWs hit harder than Foreman? Than Tyson?

 

Maybe Tyson was so much better than his opponents that he didn't have to face adversity from them. Maybe Tyson deserves some credit for not getting hurt and dropped by opponents until well into his title reign. Buster Douglas was whipping Tyson pretty good well before that eighth round uppercut sent Douglas to the canvas. Tyson was tasting adversity during the course of that fight and still managed to "fight back" and nearly stop Douglas. And, after getting brutalized by a Douglas combination that sent Tyson to the canvas, Tyson was still trying to get up; he was half coherent and shoving his mouthpiece in backwards into his mouth. That doesn't fit the stereotype of a lay down Sally or a guy with no heart!

 

I would not say that Tyson had no heart, but he was not as secure and confident as you believe -never. Tyson the Myth was, but he is a figment of the wee ones' imagination.

If Tyson continued to roll over has-beens, never-where's, and stylistic meals, would you believe that he was indestructible? I wouldn't. Greatness untested is theoretical.

Tyson is great, in my opinion, but any other greats who could survive the early onslaught and who had the capability to hurt him and test his will has a good chance of beating him. I choose Holyfield, Foreman, & Liston as very likely to KO him, prime or no prime.

 

Foreman kos him within 7

 

Foreman has admitted to being a very insecure and fearful fighter during his first career. He faced Ken Norton only because he had to, and Foreman admitted to being consumed by fear prior to facing Joe Frazier. Foreman also admitted to avoiding Jerry Quarry as champion. And these are the things that Foreman willingly admits to; what other types of *****s in his armor might have Foreman possessed?

It's funny how many of Tyson's opponents are ridiculed for being has-beens and no-hopers simply because Tyson dispatched them so easily. Granted, Tyson never fought a Joe Louis or Muhammad Ali or Joe Frazier type of opponent, but those guys never fought a Mike Tyson type of opponent either. And, Tyson fought the best fighters available during his time. Unlike a guy like Holmes, Tyson willingly unified the title by fighting all of the other titlists. Tyson could only fight guys that were around during his "prime" years. And, Tyson dispatched guys in a way that few others could.

Foreman being tested against Ron Lye is one thing, but do you think Ron Lyle would have tested Tyson in the same way? I have a hard time imagining Lyle hurting Tyson like he hurt Foreman. So, the fact that Foreman was hurt and nearly stopped by Lyle only to battle back might not be the positive that many make it out to be.

 

I think Anthony makes a good point: Foreman was hurt and dropped by single Lyle shots comparable to Ruddock and Thomas bombs that Tyson simply snorted off.

Regarding Tyson's ability to take shots, I have always been impressed with three exhibits:

a) the aforementioned Thomas in Round 1; Tyson savagely assails a tough Thomas from the first bell, but Thomas does not fall, instead letting his own hands go and managing to make Tyson relent a bit. Thomas unleashes a perfect straight right that lands right on the button; Tyson's square legs buckle, he composes himself, the bell rings and both fighters look challengingly at each other. Were Tyson not iron-chinned, this moment would have been one of those highlights for the ages when a challenger surprisingly takes the title with one punch, or at least drops the champion for a flash knockdown, or else gains the confidence to begin putting together an upset. Nothing of the sort happened, and this moment is totally overlooked because Tyson efficiently absorbed the blow, continued with his fight plan and proceeded to get the better of a defiant Thomas until he pulverizes him with a fantastic Round 6 brutal knockout flurry.

b) The first Bruno fight. Bruno, a guy with a 97% knockout rate, shamelessly rabbit punches Tyson tens of times within 2 minutes. Tyson never complains, but is naturally slowed a bit. Bruno unleashes a perfect tight left hook right on the button; Tyson goes into a crouch but then immediately keeps coming forward. A few seconds later, Bruno lands another solid left. Nothing. Tyson keeps up the pressure. Bruno manages to land a few more telling shots in an uneven fight for him until he is caught and savagely reduced to helplessness on the ropes in Round 5.

c) The Douglas fight. Tyson takes solid shot after solid shot for 8 full rounds from a very big man, without as much as staggering back (something Foreman clearly displayed early against Ali's single rights). I remember thinking then, as I do now, Tyson could definitely take it.

From the Holy fights on, let's just remember, as I have said before, that Tyson was 7 full years past his best, and had been in jail for 3 years. Getting hurt by Holy early to the point of amnesia clearly shows his deterioration by then.

 

You put too much stake in what Foreman said when he was a middle-aged Christian preacher. On Champion's Forever, George was being gracious to two men who he absolutely destroyed easily. You shouldn't take that at face value.

I don't know if Tyson would roll over Lyle. The man was large, hit like hell and was an ex-con who had no fear. I wouldn't discount him so easily.

Anthony, there are also a few other questions you failed to answer:
Which HWs should be favored to beat Tyson?
Which HWs hit harder than Foreman? Than Tyson?

Prime, feel free to answer these as well...

 

I think in the Lyle fight, the first shot Foreman got caught with
was picture perfect on George's temple. ANYONE who gets hit
a certain way, perfect timing, power, angle, placement, can get hurt.
George really wasn't with it 100% after that shot in round one.

 

Additionally, I do not consider the George in question here to be anywhere near as vulnerable as he was after Zaire. People discount how much damage Ali did to his psyche. The ghost of Zaire was exorcised from his life 20 years later when Moorer went down for the cound. I found it interesting that George had Dundee in his corner and was wearing the same, 20 year old red and blue trunks that he wore when he lost the title.