Mike Tyson Vs. George Foreman

He totally gave up against Lewis after about round two. It's one thing taking shots that you've anticipated because you're standing still like a punch bag, it's another to actually risk all by going for broke and risking walking into an unexpected bomb. He quit winning the fight very early vs Lewis- and gave up winning after the first knockdown against Evander.

 

Foreman never hit the canvas due to exhaustion. Even though he may well have been tired, Ali's four punch combination was the main reason he hit the canvas, not tiredness. Exhaustion?. This is boxing afterall. Physically and mentally probably the toughest sport on the planet.

His chin defeated him, as it was punches that put him on the canvas. Exhaustion played a part in his inability taking the punches, and obviously getting up. But thats all what having a good chin and recovery powers are all about. Many fighters get knocked down while exhausted, and many stay up.

I'm not saying Foreman had a glass jaw, not by any means. But his chin let in down in Zaire that night.

 

I don't agree Foreman's chin defeated him. The man was totally stuffed by the end due to many factors, including Ali's brilliance that night. However Ali could have hit Foreman with the same volley of punches early on and George would never have been out of there. Foreman took some great hooks from Frazier including numerous bombs in his old age comeback. The man has an A class chin IMO. Regardless of Foreman's chin, Ali was up on points and always going to dominate from then on. It wasn't George's chin, it was Ali's class.

 

George's stamina and tactics in hindsight is what helped him to defeat. Hindsight is wonderful tho, most of the world predicted a Foreman blowout. Personally i don't think this fight was going to be George's no matter what his gameplan. This was Ali's night.

 

Foreman was beaten by an Ali mind-****. Tyson didn't posses such skills.

 

It was not a lightning strike from the Zaire sky that put Foreman on the canvas. I do agree throughout his career that Foreman's chin was solid, but it let him down against Ali. You could say many fighters can take punches better during the early rounds rather than the late rounds. Thats obvious. I'm afraid it was Ali's class and Foreman's chin.

As I said in my earlier post, having a great chin is not all about absorbing shots when fresh during early rounds, but the mid-late rounds as well when exhausted. Foreman never showed any recovery powers whatsoever either, as he never got up.

If Foreman's chin never defeated him, how did he hit the canvas?. The bottom line here is clean power punches put him on the canvas, yet you claim his chin never defeated him.

The points you make regarding Foreman being defeated against Ali are part and parcel of the game. Exhaustion and an opponents class.

You totally disregard his chin against Ali, not sure why. Quote "It wasn't George's chin".

 

Joeezzard, this forum has a surplus of reasonable posters who craft good arguments. I'd list them but there are too many to remember. Most of the newer posters make an effort to contribute something worthwhile too... there are only a few dimwits out here who try to step on others to look bigger. They reveal themselves for who they are.

I love the knowledge and the great debates that erupt out here, but another highlight is when the two-bit hecklers and dimwits get what's coming to them. (Conteh just gave us a show at the expense of one of them.) Their attempts to get up from such bombs are reminiscent of Trevor Berbeck circa 1986.

 

No, I didn't say that at all. I used those two as examples of fighters who were similarly built to George, with some similar characteristics. Bruno could not get off against Tyson and Ruddock found Tyson unbelievably strong.
You must admit though, that people always see Frazier as the blueprint for beating Tyson. That tells me they haven't been paying attention.

 

Fair enough, they do. But I, like they, fancy George to beat up a guy 5 ft 10 or so, especially if it's a trade off- and that's that. But Bruno was absolutely petrified of Tyson- totally **** his pants. Bad example. Ruddock had a go- but he ended up being beaten by virtually all the top level fighters he fought.

 

Foreman survived much bigger shots than Ali hit him with. It was mental and physical exhaustion as much as anything that derailed him in Zaire.

You can also say quite confidently that Foreman tired easier than most great fighters. Take it to the bank. Ali let him pound away round after round for a reason, then when the time was right, bam.

So if a guy just collapses from utter exhaustion after his opponent misses and can't get up he has a weak chin, right? SRR's chin let him down vs Maxim when he was reeling all over the ring right? You do realise the conditions Foreman and Ali fought under?

From memory Foreman suggested he could have got up but had nothing left to give basically, but you might be able to enlighten me. He sure showed plenty of recuperative powers when getting up vs Ron Lyle, incidently a harder hitter than Ali. The difference? Foreman wasn't anywhere near as tired

Clean power punches and mental and physical exhaustion put him on the canvas. Factor in the conditions and George's tendancies and it is all too clear.

The points i make as well as the new ones above are also very relevant here. George didn't suddenly have a one night stand with a weak chin.

Fair go Robbi. That might be the most blatant effort at selective quoting i have ever seen mate.

 

If a fighter misses punches and collapses due to exhaustion, then obviously he doesn't have a weak chin. Punches need to hit someones chin for anyones chin to be rated.

I'm not saying Foreman never survived bigger shots than Ali hit him with, as Lyle and Frazier among others clearly hit harder than Ali did. I did state in my earlier post that it was a combination of Foreman being physically exhausted combined with Ali's class which resulted in the knockout.

But my point is showing a good chin on any given night is about taking punches throughtout a fight, whether it be the early rounds or late rounds when not as fresh.

My whole point JT, you seem to think "it wasn't Georges chin", it was due to fatigue. Being exhausted is part of the game I'm afraid.

 

Were the conditions that night different to Foreman's other fights would you say? Was it just an average night to slug it out on, or was it different from the norm?

 

Lets just say a world heavyweight champion from the USA fights in Manilla or Zaire during the 1970's. Over 100 degrees mostly every fight. He losses his title by knockout during the 8th round of a high paced fight, then tries to regain it 6 months later and losses again by knockout during the 10th. He becomes a journeyman and decides to resume his career in the same country he previously lost both fights. He suffers knockout defeats yet again.

You honestly think people would say "well he never had a bad chin, it was due to being exhausted in the heat".

Because Foreman showed a great chin throughout his career, you can't solely put his knockout defeat against Ali down to conditions and being exhausted. His chin let him down that night.


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Just to interject here, I don't think Foreman's stamina was as bad as people think it was. He threw 125 punches in the 7th round alone, in that awful, oppressive heat. Those are big numbers.
George's problem was that he lacked the discipline to pace himself. Personally, I think the conditions (and George's lack of foresight) played a big role in the KO, although Ali's punches obviously has something to do with it too.
On a cooler evening, Ali would be hard-pressed to repeat the trick, although it's not impossible.

 

JT. We both make good points. I'll call its evens with you.