Mike Tyson vs. Jimmy Young

I do not disagree with you about why Jimmy Young was able to defeat so many huge punchers, including harder hitters than Tyson. I don't recall ever mentioning LaMotta or writing anything that should give rise to the idea that Young relied on his chin.

Young's chin was solid and there, but we all know he relied on his jab, defensive savvy and ability to control a bout's tempo and pace and so (if his game was working) his opponent, not his chin. No-one, least of all me claims Jimmy Young was Joe Grim.

My reference to Young's chin is that despite some posters assertions, it was not made of putty, and didn't need just 1 Tyson punch to land to have Young spark out or reeling all ove the ring like I worry many are imagaining.

Tyson's Greatest Hits doesn't apply here.

You write that Foreman had Young out on his feet- i think your making my point- he wasn't finished, and we all know that bout's result.

Shavers did stop Young, and we all know that Shaver's could stop almost anyone he tagged. But apprently overlooked by others is the other occasion they met, Shavers lost on points to Young. Non-one goes through a fight without getting tagged in a fight with another contender, and Young for his moxie did get hit. That he could rise out the rough spots is a testament to his abilities, but if he had the tissue-jaw some beleive he would never have made it beyond of the Philly gyms.

You write that Tyson's a combination puncher. True, I guess therefore that you beleive Tyson's clusters would overwhelm Young, wear down his defensive abilities and score a stoppage. That is the obvious, layman's textbook answer, I think we can be a bit more nuanced here?

A fighter like Young who sparred hundreds of rounds with a non-stop infighting pressure fighter like Frazier would be imminently prepared to face Tyson. Tyson, for all his side-to-side headmovement, nice offenive manouveres and quick rythemed punching, still remains an underdeveloped infighter.
The hardest punch to slip (obviously other than the one you don't see coming) is a short distance punch- and Frazier, not Tyson, made that range his home. Tyson in-close often tended to clinch and rest, or if he did throw in-close clusters, they were often ineffective. Many of the in-close combo's people beleive they're seeing a really in Tyson's optimum distance- which given his bodies leverages is usually inside his opponents.

But as compared to the degree of range Frazier operated in- and Young dealt with over hundreds of rounds, they were that critical distance further away. Similarly, when you slow down or freeze-frame his multi-punch clusters, you will notice a wildness- often there is an unnecessary arc or telegraph. Who am I to critique Tyson's punching technique you ask- well fair enough, but although Tyson could throw good short punches (vs Botha, vs Berbick etc), very often those that seem so weren't.

So what you ask? Well, if Young can roll, slip, angle off, parry and pick off Frazier's on the chest offense, remembering that frazier brought his rpressue all-round, I'm pretty confident he'll do very well negating Tyson's musceled-in offense. As Tyson becomes increasingly frustrated with his inability to land (and that never really happened to Tyson in his pre-prison career), is Tyson going to remain calm, composed and tighten his shots up? Mabye, but I doubt it.

That's why I disagree that Tyson's ability to run off his very attractive combinations will make or break the fight. Were Tyson to deliberatly use his rapid lateral movement to out-position Young and then launch offence, that's plausable. But Tyson's 'total package' was only ever displayed agaisnt the cherry-picked doomed, so...I remain pretty cynical.

That was worth the wait.

A man who beats Shaver's, Foreman, Lyle etc and you dismiss him as a 'punching bag'. One of those boxing fans, eh?

'Soft'- I hope you only mean around the middle, and not in any other way?

Try not to be offended by Young's lack of hypervascularity, I know it can be unattractive to see pro boxers who aren't 'ripped' like Dorian Yates, but nature gives us all different metabolisms.

Just an aside, does you friend Pat Cuillo share your dismissivness of Young, your probably denigrating the best name on your friends' record.

Absolutely, and Young's schooling of Tyson made a distinct impression of Tyson ever-after. I've always felt that much of Tyson's respect for the 60's and 70's fighters comes from having been able to have the experience of training with some of the older ones- being humbled in the ring by Young's boxing savvy will do that you and in those times Tyson was a young student of the game trying to find where he would/could fit in relation to past fighters and champs.

Young's a subtle defensive stylist who can be boring if your not interisted in the finer points of boxing. But boxing is by definition the art of hitting and not being hit in return. In terms of studying Young, certain techniques can be easier to see when hvy's perform them, usually because they're slower doing them.
I enjoy looking at/for the influence of his trainer Benton in his style, but each to their own- some guys like looking at cuts! I've no doubt that if you want to become a good fighter (which means lotsa sparring and so energy conservation), you'll do a hell of a lot better to make a study of Young's ways and wiles than say Tyson's high-energy defense.

No doubt, Tyson was an animalistic finisher. ANd of course its so easy to feel you know tyson, like Ali, with all the doco's, literature and fights available. Gauging a less exposed fighter can be more difficult, especially one who was as abused, mis-managed and corruptly handled as Young was.

On Tyson by contrast, his managment were nothing if not cunning. They sourced very clever, experienced fighters like Young that Tyson could learn from and build confidence from, paid them a stack to spar and only matched him with fighters they were sure they could beat. Nothing wrong with that- but a lot of managers become too accomplished at avoiding the dangers and forget about stroking them learning curve 'off the record' so to speak.

I'm tempted to trade with you.

Blasphemy.

 

Apt analysis Ecto. Very cool stuff.

 

Tyson via wide decision.

 

Tyson by knockout in 1 or 2 rounds. Young has nothing to keep Tyson off of him. To beat Mike Tyson you have to be able to get his respect.

 

Tyson by middle rounds KO

Too accurate and too much speed for Young to handle ... he works the body and finishes Young off in the middle rounds by setting him up into some big punches

Tyson was the master at creating openings and Young would be carved up

Young looked good against lumbering stalkers like Foreman and Lyle but with someone as evasive and fast as Tyson he would have have too much on his plate

 

Tyson is a better finisher, quicker and a better combination puncher than any of the beasts Young tamed.

Tyson decision or, dare I say it, stoppage in the mid-rounds. Wouldn't be surprised if he looked awful in winning a decision mind you.

Young would not win.

 

Jimmy Young ????
Some are really trying hard to plug this guy.
I know people are gullible, but this is too much.
Its like trying to convince that Dog**** is Icecream.