Good analysis, I agree with the fact that as a busier fighter Frazier's best move would be to crowd Tyson and smother his shots while wearing Mike down. I can't help but picture a scenario where Frazier gets caught on the way in and given how accurate a puncher Tyson is its really not out of the question. Your analysis suggests despite the punishment, Frazier will dictate the pace of the fight. Its plausible and it actually does illustrate your point of how Joe crowding Mike will disrupt Tyson's rhythm. That is true after all Tyson and most swarmers are best suited for beating boxers not necessarily other swarmers and the more I think about it, the fight probably wouldnt have the same visual beauty that Ali Frazier produced simply because I can easily see an ugly fight with some brilliant highlight reels. My question is at somepoint Frazier, on the way in, will get hit- and not just hard but Mike Tyson hard. At some point Tyson is most likely going to step to the side or take a step back to generate space to unleash a combination. Do you honestly see Frazier going 4 rounds without being rocked? I dont. And because of that I think that not only will Tyson rock him but he'll probably smell blood and finish him off.
I dont think this is accurate. Obviously it depends on the skill, style, speed and reach of the opponent. Maybe Frazier took 2 or 3 punches at times from Muhammad Ali to land 1 of his own, but that's against Muhammad Ali only. I dont think he's going to take more punches from Tyson than he's going to land. Again, I think it is being implied that Frazier's defense was ****, (whereas Tyson's was brilliant ?). I think this an unfair assessment. First of all, Frazier was drilling Ali's body with hard hooks from the get-go in reality. Ali was Ali : he threw long laser-guided straight punches from long range in barrages of 4,5,6 before Frazier was even close enough to land his body shots. Tyson is Tyson : he's a short-armed fighter, it would be physically impossible for him to replicate the method by which Ali landed that much on Frazier. Also, I think people overlook how much Frazier actually slipped in his prime fights. That's basically saying anyone who was battered or beaten by Frazier earlier than the 6th round was struggling against an "average" fighter ?? Jimmy Ellis, George Chuvalo, Jerry Quarry (1974) were all beaten in the 4th and 5th rounds and were good fighters. Frazier was a class act and had immense talent and strengths from the opening bell onwards. I've already covered in depth how I think this match-up of styles pan out. I think Tyson had a weak stance on the inside and was not comfortable as an infighter. I think he would be pushed back by Frazier who would have his head pinned on Tyson's chest. The last thing in the world Frazier would want to do is clinch in close - that's exactly where he needs his hands free for punching. Right. And the rest. Tyson had plentiful array of strengths and skills, as did Joe Frazier. I disagree. Frazier would pose more puzzles for Tyson's style than Tyson poses for Frazier's, IMO. Tyson's fast start would rock Frazier, but Frazier's drive forward and infighting superiority would disturb Tyson's rhythm terrible. Frazier doesn't need to clinch or tie Tyson up - in fact, Tyson would be better advised to do that, and i dont see it winning him the fight. The 5th round is where I think Tyson would begin to wilt, he'd be lucky to last much longer, IMO, and wouldn't make it to the 10th.
Agreed. It would be messy. I see him getting rocked. I dont see him getting rocked and prevented from retaliating though, as Foreman could do. Foreman had him up and down like a yo-yo but Frazier was still closing on Foreman, only to be shoved back. When Frazier closes on Tyson - which he could do however much you can imagine Tyson hurting him - he's going to pin Tyson and put some serious hurt back on Mikey. This will become a pattern. Tyson could step back or to the side to unleash a bomb, as he did at times to the likes of Thomas & Berbick, but it will be a hell of a lot more difficult against Frazier, and all the while Frazier is up close he is doing real damage, to Tyson's body and soul. Frazier's gonna grind it out. Foreman smelled blood, and had all the physical attributes to bludgeon Frazier without much risk of being hurt himself, and used the shove whenever Frazier closed, and STILL he didn't have Frazier finished quickly after initially flooring him. While Tyson sees red and attempts to "finish him", (if indeed he gets Frazier that hurt) Frazier's going to close on him and when he does you better believe he's gonna hurt Mikey. I cant see it any other way. Joe Frazier was Joe Frazier after all. He's not going to pass up a chance of hurting a guy back, a guy who isn't too comfortable or well-balanced on the inside, Frazier's gonna rip some in of his own.
Sonny's jab: I agree with your scenario about Frazier overcrowding Mike Tyson and dominating on the inside fighting. Only a fool would overlook the returns of consistent body punching but I do think Frazier will have trouble getting to Tyson's chin - and this is problematic for Smokin' Joe. As you know, Joe Frazier had very bad vision on one eye particularly and this is why he relied so much on the left hook. Mike Tyson was pretty good at avoiding left hooks and all of Tyson's conquerors got to him with either a right hand or an uppercut - not the left hook. So with what punches will Joe catch Tyson's chin with? I don't see the left hook, don't see much of the right or the uppercuts? Body punches would slow down Tyson to make him susceptible for the hook later on - but we need to slow him down quickly before the damage he does early is too great. Tyson IMO had the superior arsenal of weapons and he could use his punching power as stopping power too.
Both come in feeling out with the jab, and then: Tyson's two-handed attack, with greater power, one, two, three, four, five swift, murderous, VARIED punches gets to Joe's solid chin before his one dimensional attack (swift, powerful left hook) begins to get to Mike's iron-cast jaw. Mike blows Joe out before other factors can come into play. I greatly admire Joe Frazier, but, simply, Mike Tyson was the greater wrecking machine.
Mike's Iron cast jaw!? Holyfield knocked him into next week & he's a blown up Cruiserweight! When was the first time Tyson really got tagged?
Tyson was tagged many times and showed again and again that his chin was 8/10. Not one of the best of all time- but granite nevertheless. Chin was never his limiting factor - it was something else. Remember, Holyfield also decked the granite chinned Ray Mercer and hurt iron chinned George Foreman. Though Foreman was 76 years old at the time, he did have 43 years of rest and still retained his chin at the time. No offense, but as soon as someone refers to Holyfield as a "blown up cruiserweight" to imply that Holy wasn't the Real Deal - I begin to question if the chap is legit or not.
Frazier gets ko'd early. In tyson "smokin joe" would be going toe to toe against someone bigger, faster, and stronger. Frazier was not a one punch ko artist like tyson was, contrary to what many believed. He wore his opponents down through through steady pressure until they had nothing less, then he took them out. Tysons power, however, was downright frightning. And what made him even more scary was the speed with which his bombs were delivered. Fraziers style was to take three punches to deliver one but that would spell suicide against "kid dynamite". Based on these facts, i couldn't see frazier lasting past the third round, perhaps not even the 2nd.
Frazier is so open to that uppercut, just like how his son was. Mike knows that and will capitalize. My prediction is the same as Iron Champ. A KO inside 4 rounds.
