Mike Tyson vs Joe Louis?

A newbie? I'd never have guessed.

 

The only one who's "mentally deficient" here is the newbie who wakes up an old issue that's been dealt with more times than Jenna Jameson purely for the sake of starting a row.

Go watch Louis/Godoy II or Tyson/Holyfield I if you're really interested in educating yourself.

 

Enzo Mccarinelli is the greatest Welsh Itallian fighter of all time.


..... Strike that maybe the second greatest.

 

That´s an interesting match-up. Louis would not be intimidated by Mike, that´s for sure. That´s a big advantage Mike had over most of his opponents. They were intimidated. That made them tense and afraid and thus they weren´t at their best. Louis wouldn´t be affected by that. So, let´s go to the arguments you brought to the table:

Tyson has a better chin.
Joe's chin isn't good.
Joe got knocked down by fighters far less superior to Tyson (eg Galento).
Let´s see into their records. Tyson was stopped 5 times by Douglas, Holyfield, Lewis, Williams and McBride in 58 fights.
Joe Louis was stopped 2 times by Schmeling and Marciano in 70 fights.
Both endured terrible beatings until they got stopped in those fights. The best punchers of the bunch were Marciano, Lewis and Schmeling. All this indicates IMO that it´s more likely that Tyson get´s stopped than Louis.
Now there is the issue of Louis getting knocked down often. I think he is number two there after Patterson. Well, did you know that Louis liked to take a nap in his room before entering his room? I don´t know why he did it, but we all know that after waking up we often aren´t at 100%. I don´t think it was differen´t with Joe and I´d bet this has something to do with some of his knockdowns. So, Joe Louis was knocked down quite often. But he got up and won nearly every time. He could overcome this adversity, could come back and win. He proved his heart and will to win there. Mike on the other hand, once he was down, he lost. That does not mean he has no heart, he showed that one in the beatings he took. But it shows that his heart and will weren´t big enough to overcome this kind of adversity.
I don´t think there is much between chin-wise. But IMO it´s more likely that Mike get´s stopped than Joe.

Tyson is faster.
I don´t think anybody will argue this point. Tyson is faster. However, Louis is pretty fast himself. The speed difference isn´t as big as Tyson is used to. And Louis had tremendous timing and accuracy and we all know this can cover up a speed disadvantage.

Tyson hits harder.
Hm, that´s an interesting one. Both have a similar KO percentage. Louis however had more fights, so his is more impressive. Other than Tyson Louis also stopped atg hws around their best - Schmeling, Walcott. That´s a big one IMO. Tyson and Louis are both the top combination punchers in hw history - only Patterson and Dempsey have something to say about this IMO. There is not much between them. But like with the chin, I´d pick Joe based on more stoppeges in more fights and against suprior, atg, opposition.

Tyson had amazing head movement (Joe won't catch him often enough).
Indeed he had. But not always and constantly. He often abondoned his head movement, especially in the second half of his fights and when frustrated. People often act as if he would use his head movement all the time but well, he did not. He was often lazy with it, even at his very best. And very important, when hurt and under pressure he abandoned it most of the time. He could get away with it most of the time. He won´t be able to get away with it against Joe Louis.

Tyson has better footwork.
I beg to differ. Louis had great footwork. Ver balanced, always in the right position to get perfect leverage behind his punches, always at the right distance. People often go on about him shuffling after his prey and not catching them, like Billy Conn in their first fight, and that´s certainly true. But that´s not footwork. That´s cutting of the ring. And yeah, there were certainly better fighters than Joe Louis in the division, Mike Tyson for example. This won´t be an issue in this fight though, Mike certainly won´t box him. He will go after him, so Louis won´t need to cut of the ring. Mike had the faster feet and great footwork. When going forward. Not when going backwards. And believe me, he would go backwards after tasting a Joe Louis combination. And if he starts doing so, he would eat one of those again and again. Joe Louis was equally good moving forwards and backwards.

So, now there are a few points you didn´t talk about but that are important IMO:

Joe Louis has a style advantage
Joe Louis was a counterpuncher. He wanted his opponents to come to him. He set up traps to get them where he wanted them. Against Tyson this won´t be necessary. Tyson will go there on his own. He will be right where Louis wants him. This is a big issue for Mike. A very big one to overcome.

Louis was the superior infighter
Don´t get me wrong, Mike was a very good infighter. When he did so. But most of the time he did nothing on the inside. He stood there, clinching, waiting for his opponent to break it up. Louis on the other hand could knock you out with only 3 inches of space for his punches. Aside of Dempsey, he probably was the best inside fighter of the division. Mike´s passivity there will be a huge problem because there will be inside fighting. This will hurt him.

Both are great finishers
Tyson would keep him down if when he knocks Joe down.
Both are among the greatest finishers the division ever saw, only Dempsey and Langford rival them. But Louis came back when hurt and beeing knocked down. He knew how to survive. Tyson did not. This makes it more likely for Louis to survive beeing hurt than Tyson. Something to be considered.


This overall leads me to beeing quite comfortable to pick Joe Louis over Mike Tyson. It won´t be easy. In fact, it will be hard. Very hard. I expect Tyson to knock Louis down in the second but Louis to survive this, weather the storm and turn it around around the 4th, picking Mike apart when he comes in, get´s lazy with his headmovement, force him on his backfoot and beat him up. I expect Louis to stop Tyson between the 9th and 11th after a bad beating in a barnburner.

 

Tyson is all wrong for Louis, stylistically he has some of the traits Godoy and Marciano presented, alongside the speed/movement of the other fighters who befuddled Joe, alongside being the greatest puncher and combination thrower Joe faced.

 

Mentaly deficient would be sombody who bet an amount of money that they could not aford to loose, on the outcome of a boxing match between two elite fighters of similar size who were both renowned finishers.

That aside, this thread is prety pointless. We have done it half a dozen times before and neither side has shifted from their entrenched positions.

 

Tyson by KO

 

tyson opens to fast for louis and stops louis surprisingly early.