Mike Tyson VS Sonny Liston!

You already said all that.

 

Cleveland Williams is very overrated on this forum. He went 1-1 (1) vs. Terrell and he drew with Machen. He didn't get past the 3rd round vs. Satterfield, Liston x2, or Ali (yeah yeah he was shot (actually shot), I don't even want hear that story).

 

Patterson was scared to death of Liston, and less than half the offensive force that Tyson was. Why are you comparing a small cruiserweight to a proper heavyweight? And one who could barely do anything so scared stiff was he?

Douglas on the night he beat Tyson was not a poor man's anybody. Moreover, he was a fast, mobile 6'4" 230 pounder vs. Liston's unimpressive 6'1" 215 or so.
Douglas looked as good that night as Liston ever has on film, against far lesser opposition as well.

 

Your description of Patterson exactly describes Michael Spinks on the night he fought Tyson. The same Spinks you tried to build up as an excellent fighter. How hypocritical

At best he was a poor man's shell of a shot 1970 Sonny Liston that night :deal

So Liston was dropped at least once in every fight he was in? Far lesser opposition? To tell you the truth, their is some of Liston's competition I'd favor over Tokyo Douglas.

 

Let's not forget that Douglas beating Tyson is a better victory than Liston ever managed. Besides Liston had his own Douglas moment against Marty Marshall, except Marshall was a 180lb journeyman who lost almost as many fights as he won.

 

You don't think that being struck with a .357 Magnum bullet in the abdomen, that killed him multiple times, caused paralysis on part of his hips, and caused him to lose 60 pounds, had no effect on him whatsoever? :huh

 

I'd pick Ali over "Tokyo" Douglas... but Ali also went 2-0 (2) vs. Liston. I wouldn't feel confident picking Patterson, Folley, or Machen over Douglas. Douglas would have stopped Williams quickly, just like Satterfield, Liston x2, and Ali did. So, who would you pick over Douglas?

 

I've never denied that Spinks (who was an excellent fighter) was scared of Tyson. I did point out that Spinks, by the time he fought Tyson, was about Liston's size.
Liston made his career out of (usually) being the bigger, stronger fighter. In the modern era, and against a guy like Tyson who regularly fought guys Liston's size or bigger, Liston's 'vaunted' size and strength counts for little.

Patterson was a small cruiserweight. Spinks was not.

I would like to know who on Liston's record is a better fighter than Douglas? Guys that Liston managed to beat, that is.

 

So Marshall was a 42-1 underdog, who knocked out Liston? Interesting.

And Douglas was knocked out by fighters such as David Bey, Mike White, and Louis Monaco. Have you ever heard of these men? Do you know anyone who does?

 

Patterson I'd rank a better fighter than Douglas. Williams as well.

 

Nope Williams would have a field day with Douglas. As would Patterson.

 

Who did Liston beat who was better than Tyson? Let me guess, Floyd Patterson? Cleveland Williams? Chuck Wepner?

A 180lb journeyman who lost or drew almost 50% of his fights is hardly comparable to a talented 6'4" 230lb boxer puncher. Marshall busted Sonny's jaw and out-pointed him. He took him the distance again later. Marshall would've been too tiny to even face Tyson or the guys who troubled him.

Want me to list all the guys who beat Marshall, who beat Liston?

 

Sure, it was a major thing. He fought Ali in late 1966. He was shot in late 1964. Between the shooting and his fight with Ali, Williams went 4-0 (2). I'm not saying that Williams was in his prime but people get carried away with that story.

In early 1979 I ran into traffic (I was 4) and was struck in the head (left side) with the front of a car. The car was going about 40 mph, the driver stated he never had a chance to brake until after I was hit (I had ran out from between two parked cars). Anyway, I had no signs of life. Two nurses who were in a nearby store administered CPR. I was flown to Shock Trauma (Baltimore) and was in a coma for about 2 weeks. No one was sure if I was going to make it or not. I woke up deaf in one ear (still am) and severely messed up vision (20/20 now) but did all kinds of bad a-ss shlt after that.

Shlt happens, get over it. Williams was still pretty good when he fought Ali. A prime Williams still gets stopped early by Ali.

 

No a fighter who lost 14 only out of 38 fights, is comparable to a fat overweight bum who to so many fighters and was knocked out so many times, some of them don't even show up on boxrec.

You didn't mention, did Liston quit fighting when he had his jaw broken or did he fight through it?

The one where he didn't win one round? Also, you didn't mention they had another fight besides the two you mentioned. How did that one play out?

Difference is, Liston was green, had his jaw broken while laughing early and still fought valiantly fought to the final bell losing a close decision and avenged this loss twice.

 

I'm sorry for that and glad your OK.

That's debatable. I don't think so but that's my opinion. Surely we can both agree he would've done MUCH better prime for prime?