Mike Tyson "weak" opposition

[QUOTE="JohnThomas1, post: 18653787, member: 1758"

It's flabberghasting and more than a little embarrassing that you can somehow find a (fantasy) way to write off guys. Other fighters who you obviously like are held to utterly different standards and you find wild flipsides to champion their cause. Stands out like dog balls.[/QUOTE]

I see that a lot too. With all due respect to the late Sonny Liston, I like him as a fighter, but his best win was a 190ish lb Floyd Patterson. Who had been stopped before and frequently knocked down. But he tends to get a pass on that. Tysons win over Michael Spinks gets disregarded even though he was 212 lbs on fight night and was undefeated and never floored. At the very least, it's comparable to Listons win over Patterson. Especially since Spinks had 2 close fights over a version of Holmes comparable to the version of Ali that Norton had his close fights over.

Or how no one has a problem saying that Ali was unbeatable to any heavyweight champion in history the night he beat Cleveland Williams. Completely ignoring the quality of the opponent. Tyson would be shown no mercy on this board or in the YouTube comments section if he defended his title against an opponent with one fully functional leg, who had been stopped at least 3 times at or near his prime, once by a 176 lbs puncher (who admittedly could hit), and had barely survived a gunshot wound.

But if I said that no one could have beaten Tyson on the night he beat 38 year old Holmes or Spinks, that would cause an e- riot. Despite the fact that even a 45 year old version of Holmes and a beefed up Spinks were far superior quality of opponent than arguably even a prime Williams, but especially THAT 1967 version.

The double standard is atrocious. One thing I try my best to do is honestly evaluate all fighters and not let my personal feelings about what type of person they were outside of the ring cloud my judgment.

 

H2H, IMO, Tyson at his best likely could have beaten any heavyweight champion in history. He had all the physical talent but he was too mentally unstable. One thing I can say is that in the black community, mental illness is something often downplayed or ignored. We're quick to just call someone "crazy" or write them off as just having a temper and that's it. Or among the more religious of us, accusing them of being full of the devil or possessed by an evil spirit. And no I'm not making that up.

Tysons weakness was in between his ears. It says a lot about his talent that even after being the youngest heavyweight champion in history, being the first to unify the title, 9 successful title defense's and almost 5 years undefeated that he still fell short of what was expected of him. The bar was set so high for him precisely because he was so talented. All of the old time fighters and trainers many of whom were still living in the late 80s had nothing but praise for him.

 

Never thought of it that way

 

True. When looking at the Rings top ten contenders going into 1973, there wasn't a single name on there Foreman had beaten. And, quiet as it's kept, Fraizer was about 10 lbs over his best weight, did lots of partying in Jamaica and had seen better days. It wasn't the same Fraizer of 1971. And had been fed handpicked opponents since he beat Ali. Of course, when mentioning Foremans destruction of Fraizer, that's rarely acknowledged. And if it is, it's quickly dismissed with "he would have always beaten him anyway".

190ish lb Roman shouldn't have been within 500 feet of any boxing ring containing a cardboard cutout of George Foreman.

And Ken Norton, good boxer, but was stopped before his prime, during his prime and after his prime by every big puncher he met. And quickly too.

And I don't mention that out of disrespect for George Foreman but to point out the massive double standard here. Had Tyson destroyed those 3 opponents, Fraizer in that condition, another guy who was a cruiserweight and just an ok one as far as world class is concerned he wasn't exactly Holyfields or Walcotts equal at 190ish lbs and another fighter who was known to fall to all big hitters anywhere in his career, we'd never hear the end of it.