Mistakes Roy Jones Made?

1980-86 for Hagler. Losses and draws on either side.

I was one of the first guys to respond and let me be clear: its only a mistake if its something that hurts you. Hendrix sounded sloppy sometimes, e e cummings didn't abbreviate correctly, Hitchcock should give two flips about actors, and Roy Jones occasionally didn't do things that were Harold Johnson approved. He did it because they worked. The saying is if it ain't broke don't fix it. For 15, 50 fights, and 4 weight classes it worked. The only time it hurt Roy was the inconsequential denouement of his career. Unless everyone thinks Ray Leonard was hurt by his loss to Terry Norris.

 

They aren't. His legs, handspeed, reflexes, anticipation and reading of an opponent are the integral part of what made him great.

Have never bothered to rank him, but he ranks far above Dempsey for me and, spontanously, also over Marciano. Him and Hagler are close, but then Hagler was probably the best MW in the world for close to 10 years. I rank and rate Roy very highly. He was a tremendous fighter, not saying anything else. Just saying that he had more technical flaws than just about anyone of comparative greatness. He also had more raw ability than probably even the absolutely greatest.

 

I'll give Hagler six. You could argue that from Monroe 'til Hearns he was in his prime IMO although you could make the case that it was around Duran and Roldan that he started slipping.

The Mugabi fight was a noticeable slip although I think Mugabi was actually a pretty good fighter up until that point. People assume he was an unskilled clubber who managed to cobble a gameplan together and show Hagler up as clueless but Mugabi was extremely well schooled, even if he very rarely showed it and, as well as getting injured soon after just fell to bits after Hagler broke him.

If he was ever going to put it all together it was that night. And it wasn't enough.

STILL! I do think it showed Hagler had declined. Mugabi wasn't that good. So either 76-84, '76 to '86 or, if you're going from the Antufermo 'draw' to say, Roldan, you'd get about five years.

Where do you consider his absolute best form to start and end?

 

Poor hand guard position. I have never been a fan of that low left hand by the waist. Never like the head tilting stuff to his left shoulder either.

He never fixed the lazy left hand problem and took some serious shots later on in his career where he shouldn't have. Every trainer I've spoken to says Roy got caught because he didn't have the quickness to bring the left hand up to protect his face when it shouldn't be at his waist to begin with.

Like counter punchers who choose to parry shots with the right hand across the face in front of the left ear, they lose travel time to bring that right hand back in position to throw it properly.

Just like Jones leaving his left hand by his waist, it takes time to bring that left hand up in guard to jab, parry or block shots properly.

Had Roy slowly started to adopt a more Larry Holmes style with the jab hand up, he would have been that much greater.

 

Hagler had very tough fights against Colbert and Finnegan in 1977 and 1978.

An indicator of Hagler being slightly pre-prime?

 

Ali?

 

No, an indicator that like Duran, Hagler was a face first brawler could not handle movement and boxing ability.

 

:yep

The first mover (Leonard) Duran fought easily humiliated him.

Buchanan couldn't move at all.:deal

 

Most probably but not really blips when you consider he just kept going and going.

 

Pssh why wait till Leonard. Marcel was robbed. Duran was lucky he never fight Greg Haugen.

 

Yeah somewhat.

At least Ali kept his hands slightly below his chest even though he didn't always keep them up as much to protect his face. He did when he was on the ropes. Ali protected himself better as he aged, realizing his speed and reflexes weren't as strong as they were in the 60's.

Roy's knuckles on his left hand were almost pointing towards the floor when he fought. He never changed this, and, this is the difference between his greatness and Roy Jones' greatness.

 

The biggest mistake that Roy Jones made, was not fighting more of the top fighters of his era during his prime.

How much greater could his legacy have been if he had taken more risks, even if he had picked up a few losses?

 

I'll agree to disagree on a few points, but I will go against the bolded

I haven't seen this fight in many years, but I do remember taking allot of full force Foreman punches and Ali himself saying he was out on his feet numerous times, which I believe

I think you're understating the number of times Ali got clocked with clean punches, he probably tucked his chin better though

 

In his biography, Ali says he was badly hurt on one occassion and that was that right in the third. A brutally heavy punch, but Ali saw it coming and I think that made the difference more than his chin.

Personally, I think Ali's chin is overrated (depending on how you define it). His recuperation powers were tremendous, though. How he recovered as he did from the KD in FOTC, I'll never know.

But many wonder how he could be so badly hurt by Cooper yet stand up to the bombs of Foreman, Shavers etc. For me, the explanation - besides that he matured a bit physically - is that he was caught unaware that time in a way that he almost never was otherwise.

Now a digress, though. I'd love to get the bottom of Ali's strengths and weaknesses, but this is about RJJ. And I don't think I have much more to say on that subject.

 

I think Ali's chin was insanely good. Considering the people he faced getting buzzed a few times and dropped what, twice, is not proof of anything other than the very best chin IMO.

Not quite Villasana-esque but not far off