Mitch Green vs Sonny Liston in a street fight

Sure, it could help or even decide a fight - or it might prove utterly worthless. That is why I specified could & not would.

 

I normally enjoy Cross Trainer's posts, but what he wrote was overly intellectualized nonsense.

A fight is a fight. Nobody is asking about all these hypothetical factors like if Liston or Mitch are on parole, how drunk they are, if they have backup nearby, etc. Fighters such as these, and former inmates/thugs in general, rarely care about these factors when they get into a sudden, violent altercation. They aren't known for being the most rational people with lots of self control. And if anyone's curious, I've worked with troubled youth, former inmates in halfway houses, and I worked in a prison for 2 years so I have some experience on this subject.

Liston slapped Ali in the fact in broad daylight at a casino because Ali kept taunting him. He beat up a cop despite having been arrested multiple times. Am I expected to believe, according to Cross Trainer, that Liston is going to remain calm and to not fight after having a drink thrown in his face? Is Liston going to get out a napkin, wipe himself off, frown, and reply to Mitch "Good heavens, why would you escalate things in such a way? If you continue with such barbaric behavior, I'm afraid we'll have to tussle outside, Mitch...!".

It would become an ugly, violent brawl immediately. To suggest otherwise means he obviously has never been around any hot tempered individuals with a criminal background. It also suggests he obviously doesn't know a thing about Liston's personality or how he's handled confrontations outside the ring.

Now in regards to a street fight, knowing how to box is a HUGE bonus. Many guys who fight in the street lack proper snap, balance, leverage, and often throw wild arm punches and haymakers. Even the ones who have lots of experience and are veteran street fighters with decent striking and grappling simply get outclassed by veteran world class strikers of most martial arts disciplines (at least, the ones who actually competed). So logically, if Liston is a significantly better boxer than Mitch, that is going to do him wonders in a street encounter. It's a bonus that Liston had been in plenty of street fights himself. So it's really no contest unless Mitch brings a knife, has backup, or gets lucky (Liston trips over a rock, Mitch finds a brick to hit him with, etc).

 

I didn’t read it either. I don’t read his posts when it comes to Ali, nor his opponents. He seems to have an agenda against that era in general. Particularly Liston and especially Foreman.
Only caught that last part which is why I tagged you as I know you’re a corrections officer and would almost certainly know a thing or two on the matter.

 

I spent over 30 years working doors and the many scenarios people are suggesting are possible and plausible, but real fights are more typically brief and very violent. Two guys actually doing the old fashioned thing and squaring up inside or outside is surprisingly rare. People who get in 'fights' in clubs etc tend to be normal guys and girls who have drunk too much and allowed themselves to be put in positions where they feel they have no option but to 'perform', 9 times out of 10 if you can intercede quickly and offer them a way out, they will, usually noisily and full of bravado, actually take it, grasp it with both hands and appear suitably reticent next time you see them. Fighting is not a 'natural' thing for most of us and people are so far out of their comfort zones that they will take most any escape route offered rather than engage. Flip side to this is that because it is so unnatural and scary for most of us, ordinary, normal people will hit others with full force, kick unconscious people, use weapons etc...out of fear alone, and the heady cocktail of fear, adrenaline, alcohol or other drugs means it can be hard to 'talk someone down' once they get to the level of actually fighting. The brakes are off the train. I'm much more of a fan of stopping fires happening than having to put them out. Vigilance and early interventions are the best policy.

Anyhow, the imagined scenario once again. Mitch being loud and aggressive towards Sonny simply gives a seasoned campaigner like Liston the edge. If Mitch gives Sonny the heads up by verbalising, shouting, showing bravado, he ends up crumpled in a heap with a broken jaw as Liston, if he's the guy I think he is, hits him early and quickly, probably in mid sentence, without even engaging with him. A Hobbesian beating, nasty, brutish and short.

 

R.I.P. Mitch.

 

same scenario

 

I take grave offense to that. My post wasn't clever enough to be considered overly intellectualized.

More seriously, great post, and this is why I figured it would be better to ask the expert(s). Only thing I'd point out about my own post is that I mentioned weapons, other people present, intoxication, etc. -- everything but the parole -- as things that might affect the outcome of the fight, rather than things that the parties would sit down and think about before fighting.

 

Over intellectualized wasn't a compliment, it's the opposite. I'm saying you were thinking too much and overlooking some common sense stuff.

Noted, that makes more sense. I thought you were suggesting either of these guys would stop and think before fighting after drinks are spilled and expletives uttered.

 

I know.

 

WTF?

 

Sonny and Mitch, with their backers, would likely end up in a mafia shoot out akin to a scene from Hard Boiled. I think Sonny's ability to dual wield whilst dive-bombing repeatedly would be the difference here. Sonny by headshot.

 

I don't think Sonny Liston was the kind of dude you'd want to tangle with in a street brawl. He was powerful AND had a nasty mean streak---I think he'd make quick work of Green!!

 

I know a story where Liston was jumped after gambilng party, and when he was leaving 3 guys jumped him behind his back on his way to the car.

One ended with broken jaw and the other went in coma, this is a true story.