MMA: The Lineal World Heavyweight Title Runs Through the Strikeforce Grand Prix

Discussion in 'MMA Forum' started by scurlaruntings, Feb 15, 2011.


  1. scurlaruntings

    scurlaruntings ESB 2002 Club Full Member

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    Due to the influx of alphabet soup sanctioning bodies in the 1980’s, lineal champions have been a staple of the boxing world for decades. Frustrated by a bevy of “champions” in an ever growing number of weight classes, boxing aficionados concocted a method of determining the “real” singular champion of each weight class by using the simplified method of “the man who beat the man”. Ignoring the politically crowned champions of the promotional bodies, when the current recognized “man” would lose, despite whether a tangible title belt was on the line or not, the man who beat him would assume the lineal championship of that weight class. This practice of lineal champions was taken a step further when Ring magazine, who arguably had been tracking lineal champions longer than anyone, actually created title belts and crowned their own champions based on the lineal premise.

    In the relatively young sport of mixed martial arts, there hasn’t been much of a need for lineal champions. In the early days, you had one major promotional body in the Unites States, the UFC. Japan had groups like Pancrase and Shooto, and later PRIDE Fighting Championships. There wasn’t much dispute over the “real” world champions in each weight class, as a majority of the world’s best fighters were fighting for a small handful of promotional entities.

    But as the sport has grown, so has the number of promotional bodies recognizing world champions. Which begs the question — which of these champions has a rightful claim as the “real” world champion in each weight class?

    The process for determining this is the same as what was done in boxing in the 80’s. Who beat the man, who beat the man? And when you trace this line for the heavyweight division, the answer might be a surprising one – Fabricio Werdum.

    The path to Werdum as the lineal world champion of the heavyweight division begins at UFC 12 in 1997, when Mark Coleman defeated Dan Severn to become the first recognized UFC heavyweight champion. Coleman was universally regarded as the best heavyweight in the world at this time, so this is the widely accepted starting point for the heavyweight lineage.

    Coleman lost the title to Maurice Smith at UFC 14 a few months later. Smith lost the title to Randy Couture in December of the same year at UFC Japan. Couture then quit the UFC due to a contract dispute, vacating the UFC title in the process. As a result, the lineal world championship left the UFC with him.

    Couture lost his next fight to Enson Inoue in October 1998. Inoue then lost to Mark Kerr in the first round of the PRIDE 2000 Grand Prix. Kerr lost to Kazuyuki Fujita four months later in the semi finals, and Fujita lost later that same night to Mark Coleman. Coleman would go on to win the Grand Prix, becoming not only the World Grand Prix champion, but also the first two time lineal world champion.


    Read the rest Here


    EXCELLENT article. And captures how truly significant the SF GP is. The reality is Cain's claim to being the best heavy on the planet is an extremely loose definition of what a world champion is. And is not dissimilar at all to the alphabet mess in boxing.
     
  2. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

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    Snowden wrote a series of articles recently detailing the path of the linear title, and they were top-notch.

    Werdum is indeed the lineal champ IMO. It all depends on whether you think Coleman 'beat' Fujita when Fujita retired injured IIRC. Snowden didn't, but the title still ended up with Fedor :good
     
  3. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

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    Also, on Cain; he has two notable wins. One, over Nog, at his best in Pride and beaten by Fedor already, and Lesnar.

    Lesnar had notable wins over Herring, already beaten by Fedor, Couture, undersized and a product of a previous era, and Carwin, from the 'new era' supposedly, but one dimensional and in his mid-thirties. Win over Mir was good but the man does have a tendency to turtle (as does Brock :rofl)

    The 'new breed' eh :lol:
     
  4. scurlaruntings

    scurlaruntings ESB 2002 Club Full Member

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    Coleman won the GP. He beat Fujita as he retired via injury after wrecking his knee on Mark Kerr.
     
  5. scurlaruntings

    scurlaruntings ESB 2002 Club Full Member

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    Exactly. Laughable isn't it. Amazing though what the UFC can sell its "fans".
     
  6. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

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    True. But he didn't beat him. See what I mean?

    Either way, I'm not too fussed, Coleman was more of a legit champ than Fujita anyway (who had a chin that could wait for him whilst 'roid freaks gassed) and the title eventually ends up with Fedor (and therefore Werdum) whichever way you look at it:good

    Check those articles out, some hate on Snowden but they really are top-notch stuff :good
     
  7. Will Cooling

    Will Cooling Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Actually those articles are just cut and paste jobs of stuff Meltzer did last year.
     
  8. scurlaruntings

    scurlaruntings ESB 2002 Club Full Member

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    Academic. He won via forefeit. Those were the rules of the PRIDE tourney. If a fighter cant fight because of injury the opponent wins. Simple in my eyes.
     
  9. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

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    Further, Lesnar did not beat a past prime Herring as impressively as Fedor did. Despite sparking him, I don't think Cains win over Nog was as impressive as Fedor diving into the guard of a prime Big Nog and dismantling him (my opinion means **** all here, it just flat out isn't better) yet Dana keeps spouting this 'I told you he was overrated' stuff.

    The Zuffa Zombies eat it up. I'm a big UFC fan, but some of their, ahem, promotional techniques can grate to a fan of the sport and not someone who is just a fan of one organisation.

    Also, the people who are now saying 'well Lesnar would've got that top position and smashed Fedor' :lol: Yes, because like he has ever displayed the ability to control someone from the top like Silva did on Saturday night (against arguably the greatest fighter off his back EVER) and had the gas tank to do it, most importantly, the first ineffective flurry Fedor threw at Silva, followed up by the flurry that backed him up, would've seen Brock all over the shop, being stalked by a man who is far superior in every department to Brock apart from size.

    In short, Silva>>>>Lesnar.
     
  10. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

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    Fair dos. As I say, it all ends up the same :good

    To the above, didn't realise Snowden was just posting that stuff up. It seemed a continuation of his 'history of MMA' book :good
     
  11. scurlaruntings

    scurlaruntings ESB 2002 Club Full Member

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    Fedor beat a prime Herring who was a BEAST in PRIDE. Fedor absolutely destroyed him in one of the most clinical displays of pure carnage iv ever seen.
    As for Lesnar's merits its not even worthy of discussion.The UFC/Dana does what it does best. Market hype and sell it to their fans.
     
  12. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

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    Sorry, to make it clear I was not insinuating that Fedor and Brock both fought past prime versions of Hering :good

    Also, Fedors beat down of him was immense.
     
  13. Black2023

    Black2023 Guest

    Lineal champions?


    A. Noguiera 2001-2003

    Fedor 2003-2010

    Werdum 2010-2011
     
  14. jimmie

    jimmie Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ive always looked at it that way but it just feels weird looking at who some of these lineal Champions are. In any case though the winner of this no doubt deserves that title whoever comes out of this tournament will be the lineal Champ and really really have elevated there status in the sports history. Take a guy like Barnett whos had great victories, been a Champ but certain things hold him back from the top 3. If he runs through say Rogers, Khraitonov and maybe Alistair Overeem can he not maybe now pass Mirko for that 3rd spot or maybe even Big Nog for 2 ? or **** what if Bigfoot avenges that loss to Werdum in round 2 and beats Barnett in the final ? This guy will be a legend and not just a legend killer. Awesome tournament.
     
  15. achillesthegreat

    achillesthegreat FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE Full Member

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    I would agree with that lineage.

    Werdum definitely owns that title but the SF GP will put to rest who the best in the world is. To be honest, we might find out in the first round between Werdum and Overeem.