molina is #1 at 154

kirk · Mar 25, 2012

Son of Gaul said: ↑

I agree that Kirkland has accomplished far more than Rodriguez at 154 and should rightfully be ranked higher but... h2h, Delvin would take Kirkland to school. I believe he ranks Rodriguez higher because of this.
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hmm... fair enough I guess, though Im weary of ranking on h2h basis. Any fighter can be rated near the tops of divisions while having done nothing because of what their fans think they could do.

But, I do see the point and understand.... and yes it has to be taken into consideration that he could very well beat Kirkland. Still though, to have a guy whos got some of Kirklands wins and hes not even in the top 10 is just bad ranking, imo.

the commentator · Mar 25, 2012

mr fists said: ↑

achieved more than anyone else at the weight. if his fights were judged fairly he'd have wins against lara, kirkland chavez x2 and alvarado to add on to win against cintron. literally all of his losses have been bull****. his style is ugly as hell but hugely effective.

he's like the new bhop, except the judges hate him. he needs to get a good promoter, one who can bribe the judges like everyone else does. no one else has achieved anything at 154.

cotto? wins against one legged foreman, shot mayorga and shot margarito
alvarez? **** title run, won against terrible challenger hatton, at catchweight! even needed refs help against gomez, fought fringe contenders at best and avoiding anyone with a chance at beating him.
mayweather? he hasnt even fought at 154 for 5 years, so **** off.

there's no one else who can even be considered, as they are either crap or already been (unofficially) beat by molina. so there you have it folks.
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more like the new john ruiz:tired

kirk · Mar 25, 2012

IntentionalButt said: ↑

They definitely both got robbed of a fair & conclusive outcome either way. :good
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Agreed :thumbsup

Royal-T-Bag · Mar 25, 2012

slugger3000 said: ↑

Why the **** is Cotto number 1? ****, Molina would beat him, Lara would spank him... Hell, Kirkland might even beat him! :nono
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Cotto is consensus #1 on just about every list, dummy. Look I am no Cotto fan and think he's overated but as of right now you cannot rank Saul ahead of him....if it's any consolation I think Lara is easily the best fighter at 154 and would beat Cotto/Alvarez/rest of division minus Mayweather if he stays there.

Royal-T-Bag · Mar 25, 2012

kirk said: ↑

Really? Rodriguez over Kirkland?

Kirkland has beaten Julio, Angulo, and Molina..... and Rod ranks over him?

:huh

And Molina, a guy who fought about as dirty a fight as seen in awhile, and proceeded to get broken down and was on his way to possibly getting stopped within the next two rounds by Kirkland even after his dirty tactics and spoiling trash, is number 4 with james not even making top 10?

I know making a list isnt easy but that just makes little sense to me.
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h2h I cannot see Kirkland beating Delvin and I don't rate the Julio win as it was pre jail Kirkland who looked much better and with his head in the game. Pre Jail Kirkland KTFO this version of James.....Also I thought his perfomance vs Molina was horrible to say the least, he got beat and bullied around the ring by a guy with no power who he's supposed to be much more physically stronger than..... So really we have Angulo who got schooled by Cintron and that's it.

kirk · Mar 25, 2012

Royal-T-Bag said: ↑

h2h I cannot see Kirkland beating Delvin and I don't rate the Julio win as it was pre jail Kirkland who looked much better and with his head in the game. Pre Jail Kirkland KTFO this version of James.....Also I thought his perfomance vs Molina was horrible to say the least, he got beat and bullied around the ring by a guy with no power who he's supposed to be much more physically stronger than..... So really we have Angulo who got schooled by Cintron and that's it.
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ya that james would kill this one, as for the rankings I still disagree but at least I can see where you are coming from now, I appreciate the explination :good

Royal-T-Bag · Mar 25, 2012

kirk said: ↑

ya that james would kill this one, as for the rankings I still disagree but at least I can see where you are coming from now, I appreciate the explination :good
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word up. rational posters :happy:happy:happy great to see.

Reppin501 · Mar 25, 2012

kirk said: ↑

Who knows, thats my point. So the very fact that we say, who knows, means its ******ed to then say 'The ref robbed Molina of a win against Kirkland' Because its just as plausable to say, based on the way the fight had turned, that he robbed Kirkland of a win.

First off, that stupid ass ref (which I agree with you he was, I think that was a bull**** DQ, but he was ****ing up all. night. long.) but that stupid ass ref is one of the reasons that Molina was able to have the success he did have in the first 8 rounds.

If people dont think that being able to push Kirkland to the ropes constantly and then hug him for dear life contributed to Molinas success, they arent grasping the fact that Molina was able to catch his breaks in those spots, and was able to keep Kirkland from doing anything in those spots as well.

It worked, good for him. But my point? My point is majority of clean refs would not have allowed that kind of bull**** from Molina.... which would have led to a lot more punches coming from Kirkland over the course of the fight.

So that bull**** ass ref that you say ****ed it all up, is to me one of the contributing factors that allowed Molina to get to that point in the fight in the first place.

as for Molina dominating Kirkland up until the knockdown, no.... the knockdown came at the very end of round 10, kirkland won that round before the KD clearly, and round 9 could be argued for a Kirkland round as well, or if you did score it for Molina, it was hardly dominating and there were signs even in that round of what was to come in the 10th.

So, did Molina win the majority of the rounds up till that point? Yes he did, but it was evident as round 9 that Kirkland was taking control, which he did in the 10th, and then put Molina down at the end of the round. That wasnt a round Kirkland was getting dominated in, then scored a flash knockdown. People need to go rewatch round 10 again. That was not a flash knockdown and Molina was in serious trouble. Huge difference.

Many things could have happend at such a pivotal moment in the fight, which is why nobody should agree to the point of the ref robbing Molina of anything.

It was a horrible fight with a horrible ref and a fighter fighting one of the dirtiest fights ive seen in recent fights ending prematurely with both fighters victories hanging in the balance. Thats what it was.
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About as well as it can be said...

Reppin501 · Mar 25, 2012

IntentionalButt said: ↑

Kirk, why are you so convinced that Molina was in such horrible shape following the knockdown? :huh

Yeah, the 10th was a great round for Kirkland. The 11th and 12th weren't necessarily going to be as successful for him.

Bear in mind:

- Molina's been around the block. He's a cagey, crafty veteran with good boxing IQ.

- Molina's got a reputation for being physically and mentally tough and resilient.

- Assuming CornerGate never went down, Molina had a whole minute to sit on his stool and clear the cobwebs...and regroup with a strategy coming into the championship rounds. A strategy that mostly likely would have emphasized safety-first and denying Kirkland any more chances to land big on him...using movement, clinching, whatever it took.

Nothing suggested to me that his legs were totally gone to the point where he'd be a sitting duck in the 11th or 12th. Most likely scenario IMO is that he'd have gotten on his bike and made Kirkland chase him, and the chips would have fallen where they may on the judges' cards. (which of course means Kirkland would have won an unpopular decision, sparking heated debate about whether or not Molina "gave it away" a'la DLH against Trinidad rather than the debate we're having now)
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IB he was hurt significantly prior to the knockdown, he was falling all over James at times holding his waist...not to mention he had blood gushing into his mouth and his face was showing significant damage. He was hurt, and hurt more than once, I'll go look at the round on DVR and give you the time...I watched a lot of fights yesterday so they are running together a little but he 100% hurt him prior to the KD. Kirkland if anything was getting stronger, and was going to come out and go smooth ape **** those last two rounds. No way Molina holds him off, IMO.

Farmboxer · Mar 25, 2012

Molina sure beat the Hell out of Kirkland, if he had been a hard puncher he would have knocked Kirkland out! Good think Kirkland had help from the referee...........

Reppin501 · Mar 25, 2012

2:24 (ring time) of 10th he hurt Molina badly, then at 1:27 or so he hits him with a body shot that buckled him over, Molina was stumbling around the entire round. After the Kirkland slip Molina tries to go for broke and is so tired and shook that he misses 4 punches that looked like I was throwing them..this all prior to the KD.

PrinceN · Mar 25, 2012

Mayweather the best at 154 and its not even close

slugger3000 · Mar 25, 2012

PrinceN said: ↑

Mayweather the best at 154 and its not even close
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Oh really... I heard Sergio is coming back down to 154!! Will Floyd go back down to 147 out of fear?

PrinceN · Mar 25, 2012

slugger3000 said: ↑

Oh really... I heard Sergio is coming back down to 154!! Will Floyd go back down to 147 out of fear?
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Floyd a 140lb fighter who is the best at 147 and 154. When Sergio has a fight at 154 talk to me then slugger until then Mayweather the best at 3 weight classes. Brandon Rios at 140 could be next for Mayweather if Bob dont duck

The Iron Worm · Mar 26, 2012

Molina is BLATANTLY number 1 at 154. You may no like how he does his business, but he has clearly achieved more than anyone else.

Fact.

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