Money May: I will dethrone the 154 lb. king

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by BigReg, Apr 14, 2012.


  1. PNoyFightFanUSN

    PNoyFightFanUSN Larry Don't Give a **** Full Member

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    No, quit being a douche. It's a matter of resume'. If Marg didn't count as a 154 guy when Pac fought him, why is he that good of a win for Cotto? Is it revenging a 147 loss a weight class up? Foreman, Mayorga, and Marg are not the kind of resume' to be the best in that weight class and there is no consensus best. I'd put Lara and Alvarez above Cotto to win. Be it skill, size, talent, they are in his division and I think he would lose to them.
     
  2. MichiganWarrior

    MichiganWarrior Still Slick! Still Black! Full Member

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    Cotto aint the king of ****. Hasnt beaten one JMW that is currently in the top 10. This a money play by Mayweather.
     
  3. PNoyFightFanUSN

    PNoyFightFanUSN Larry Don't Give a **** Full Member

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    Uh oh. Better be careful, you're going to be labeled a blind, Biased Pac/May fan for being subjective:patsch
     
  4. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    Cotto is one of my favs, but hes not king of any division in boxing. Period.
     
  5. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    Being a king of a division is holding that division on lockdown, having beat most of all your other competitors, and being a clear fav over the rest.

    JC was the king of 168 before he moved up
    Wlad is the king of the heavyweights (only argument maybe is vitali)

    Being a 'king' of a division is rare and doesnt mean its just because your rated number one.

    Cotto has done practically nothing at 154, and thats simply the truth.

    So, next to that he hasnt done much at the weight, theres the fact that plenty in the boxing world would argue over who wins between him and Lara, him and kirkland, him and canelo, ect, ect.

    so

    - his accomplishments for the weightclass are low
    - he is not a clear fav over most of his peers


    Calling Cotto the king of 154 is laughable. And Im a Cotto fan.
     
  6. BigReg

    BigReg Broad Street Bully Full Member

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    So in your opinion, Lara and Alvarez are the two best fighters at 154. I have another question as well. Let's say that Mayweather announced before this fight that he was permanently moving to JMW. Who then in your opinion would be the best fighter at 154?
     
  7. PNoyFightFanUSN

    PNoyFightFanUSN Larry Don't Give a **** Full Member

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    Still Lara or Alvarez. Are you serious?
     
  8. BigReg

    BigReg Broad Street Bully Full Member

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    So you're telling me that Lara and Alvarez are better fighters than Mayweather? Would you favor either one to beat Mayweather at 154?
     
  9. PNoyFightFanUSN

    PNoyFightFanUSN Larry Don't Give a **** Full Member

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    Same reasoning. Mayweather can't announce he's moving up and get number 1 in that division based on what he might do. He's fought Oscar at 154, 5 years ago. He's going to be fighting Cotto (who once again hasn't fought anyone ranked at 154). If he says he's going to stay at 154, I highly doubt he would be left at number 1 just for beating Cotto. Most rankers would stick him at 2 or 3 until he beats someone ranked.
     
  10. BigReg

    BigReg Broad Street Bully Full Member

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    First off, you dodged the question again. You know damn well you would favor Mayweather over both Lara and Alvarez at 154. You dodged the question because you know it contradicts your earlier statement that they are better JMWs than Mayweather. Secondly, if Mayweather were to beat Cotto, and announced he was staying at JMW, I can pretty much guarentee you that most people would have him ranked no.1 at JMW.
     
  11. 555east

    555east Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Alvarez has had close to 40 fights and is likely facing his best opponent (a past it Mosley) in May

    as for Lara, he's pretty solid guy, and hopefully he can keep stepping up (looked great vs P-Will)

    What Cotto did at WW shouldn't factor into his run @ Super Welter .. completely different division

    Cotto might have been carefully matched taking on lighting hitting Yuri Foreman and a past it Mayorga + Margarito

    but he's at least looked good doing it .. and if Miguel Cotto isn't clear Cut #1 at Super Welter, he's at least top 3


    the way Kirkland got outclassed his last fight vs Molina, even in a win I don't think he has a better claim to anything

    sure he has the Angulo win, but Molina exposed Kirkland for the limited slugger he is

    as for P-Will his "best" win @ 154 was an undeserved decision over Lara where he looked pretty horrible ... and then there's the guy he beat, Lara who at 15-1-1 doesn't have the resume just yet

    so while Kirkland & P-Will might have more fights @ Super Welter when compared to Cotto, I don't see how they have "better claims" than Cotto

    Molina's best win was over Cintron, coming off a DQ loss to Kirkland which he for the most part controlled

    Kirkland's best wins are a DQ over Molina and a TKO over Angulo, but aside from that he's crushed a bunch of cans

    and Lara, P-Will went over above
     
  12. PNoyFightFanUSN

    PNoyFightFanUSN Larry Don't Give a **** Full Member

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    you're creating more questions. Floyd wouldn't be king at 154 because Cotto isn't King at that weight. Point ****ing blank.
     
  13. BigReg

    BigReg Broad Street Bully Full Member

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    Stop trying to muddle the discussion. Forget this King label. I haven't even been using it. If Mayweather moved up to 154, he would be the best fighter there, period. If he beat Cotto, and stayed at 154, he would be ranked no.1 in that division. Now if you disagree, and you think Alvarez is the best JMW out there and is a better JMW than Mayweather, that's fine. I dissagree, but that's a valid opinion.
     
  14. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    IMO

    - Number 1 ranked fighter at 154 (not champion of the division, not king, not the best fighter, just politically ranked number 1 based off of h2h potential and resume : Arguably Cotto.

    - King at 154 : Nobody


    - Best fighter at 154 : Not clear right now
     
  15. PNoyFightFanUSN

    PNoyFightFanUSN Larry Don't Give a **** Full Member

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    The original discussion is whether or not Floyd would in fact be dethroning the 154 lb king. You named the thread that. Cotto is not 154 lb king, hence Floyd will not be doing that. You muddled it up yourself. I gave my reasons for my train of thought. What I don't agree with above all else is declaring someone to be something they haven't proven to be yet but they have the chance to. If Floyd made a permanent move to 154, it'd be to fight whoever will make him the most money, not to beat the best. I understand how you're trying to reason it out and I'm not shitting on your opinion but let's be serious. The best aren't looking to fight each other in that division.