Monte Cox's all time divisional ratings

I agree that Foreman is too high. Nevertheless, the ratings as a group for the weight classes are good.

Cox has evolved in his thinking ,and seems more fair toward modern fighters as of late at heavyweight.

 

Foreman is a few spots too high and Marciano DEFINENTLY deserves to be somewhere in there.

 

I have no real objection to the heavies bar Foreman, who should be in the top 10 but 3 is way too high I feel. Interesting he missed out Marciano I'm sure a few will have a thing or two to say about that.

Just scrolling quickly through the rest, I can't see the case for having Langford, although a fantastic fighter - my p4p #1 - above Charles at light-heavy, even though light-heavy was said to be his best weight. Charles I'd have above Tunney aswell. Moore usually a bit higher also.

Fitzsimmons rates highly on a p4p scale but he shouldn't be above really any of the other middleweights mentioned, particularly not Monzon and Hagler.

His welter list looks pretty decent, no real objections.

Not sure why he's placed Pryor in his light-weights list, I would usually have Ike Williams a bit higher. I'd probably have Saddler above Arguello at feather aswell, Fighting Harada should be in the bantam rankings a few places behind Jofre and not in the flyweight rankings.

His all-time p4p top 10.

Well his is:

1 Ray Robinson
2 Joe Gans
3 Harry Greb
4 Henry Armstrong
5 Joe Louis
6 Muhammad Ali
7 Sam Langford
8 Benny Leonard
9 Roberto Duran
10 Ray Leonard

Mine is:

1 Sam Langford
2 Harry Greb
3 Sugar Ray Robinson
4 Henry Armstrong
5 Roberto Duran
6 Ezzard Charles
7 Benny Leonard
8 Muhammad Ali
9 Mickey Walker
10 Bob Fitzsimmons

No way should Joe Gans be at #2, although I would have him just outside my top 10, around 12-16 or so. Langford should be in the top 4. Louis is too high imo. I wouldn't argue with the places of Robinson, Greb, Ali (although he should probably be a couple of places lower), both Leonards (although I feel Sugar Ray should be a few places lower, around 12-14) and Duran (although I think he should be slightly higher).

 

Mike Tyson but no Marciano is stupid. Foreman that high up is also stupid. Lewis should also be higher, and I have Ali at one with Louis at two.

 

Pleasantly surprised to see Johnson there,I think Big George is a little fllattered ,and I could not put Frazier above Marciano,I think I would exclude Tyson as his career was a bit like a comet ,I prefer longevity,But a case can be argued for allmost all of those there I feel.And I like Cox's stuff.

 

I chit-chat with Monte from time to time. He's a very good historian, and mostly open midned. Monte thinks Tyson would be too much for many old timers. This is avant guard among seasoned historians.

Monte has also moved Johnson down a few notches and says he might fall further, while at the same time is starting to give Lewis his due.

 

Joe Gans 2 all time P4P?

Ehhhhhhh.

 

Harada was a better Flyweight than Bantam, in terms of effectiveness. He'd have beaten anyone to fight there IMO.

 

I didn't expect to agree with everything in the list (which I didn't), but the rankings as a whole look pretty good. Like mentioned several times above, Marciano should be in there and Foreman looks too high.

 

Of the two commonly-raised objections in this thread, I agree that Marciano should be on the list, of course (and Cox used to have Marciano in the top 10, too, but it appears he's swapped Marciano for Frazier, who I also have in the top 10, though below him), but I actually agree with Cox's placement of Foreman. I think George is underrated.

 

I agree -particularly out here. Foreman's reclamation 20 years after the fact against an undefeated heavy-handed southpaw propels him upward in my opinion. No one other HW that I think of could have done that at age 45.

 

I'm surprised Johnson makes the top 10 at all most people rate him pretty low. I feel Lewis will enhance his reputation as years go by.

 

That's all that really needs to be said lol.