Montreal Duran vs PBF at Welter

Man i hate that MAG. Still pissed his boy got stopped from Leonard and Hagler and beat a blown up past prime Duran

Lightweight Duran vs Lightweight May is a mismatch, Duran roughs him up and dominates over 15.

Welterweight Money has a much better chance but I still think Duran takes it albeit much closer

Mosley has May in ***** street. Imagine what Durans relentlessness would do to May

 

Duran lost to Hagler and Hearns lost, but Hearns rocked Hagler and cut him up. I don't think that is really saying Duran did better because he fought a slower pace fight where he lost cleanly in a boring fight. In that case Roldan did better against Hagler than both Hearns and Duran, he knocked Hagler down.
Leonard whom Hearns fought was when Ray was closer to his prime and knew the whole game, and Duran was outclassed by two times.

The Cuevas-Hearns beat at welt when it mattered and knocked him out in two rounds. Duran fought Cuevas after the Stafford fight and over a year layoff of Cuevas. And still Hearns stopped Cueves earlier Barkley? Hearns was going to have an easy 4th round knockout had the fight gone on. And Benitez-outclassed Duran and Hearns outboxed Benitez for his title. Duran did better? Just the fact Hearns beat Benitez and should have won the Leonard rematch and Duran was outclassed against Ray and Wilfred and Tommy stopped Duran is proof who is better in the fab 4 matchup. Duran lost to all of them and sometimes easily. The argument for Duran in the fab 4 head to head matchup is not a good one. He lost to them all and was outclassed by 3 of them. Had Hagler been aggressive it would have been 4.

I can list the guys Hearns fought from Weston,Shields,Cuevas,Leonard,Singletary,Benitez,Duran,Hagler,Shuler,Kinchen,Roldan,Olajide,Hill where does it stop. Duran's opponents like Dejesus can be easily neutralized by Hearns beating Benitez and Buchanan by Hill. And stopping Duran.

 

you want guys on ESB to agree with everything you say? That wouldn't be much of a boxing forum. My comments about Duran are not about Hearns. I never even said Duran's loss to Hearns was a knock on Duran since Tommy lands his right most guys are knocked out. No insult there. But it does show again how Duran was outclassed by the elite fighters when he was matched with them.

Apart from the Hearns/Duran fight, I do not understand a top 10 rating for Duran. It is not about Duran as much as a standard which should be met to be at that top 10 level. Duran when he was still in his early 30s was outclassed by Leonard and Benitez and Hearns. And he fought until 50. How is that top 10? Then those guys should be rated top 10 or top 20 all of them.

 

If u ever fight some1 bigger , younger and stronger , try 2 make it end like Duran ended with Hagler rather than how Hearns or Roldan ended with him . Just my honest advice .

Duran's outcome vs Leonard in their rubbermatch is more 2 his credit yet again , because how many fighters at that age and size disparity would have lasted d distance against some1 5 years younger , naturally 10 lbs bigger , nearly 4 inches taller who even enjoys d benefit of having experience against them ?
For example look at other 3 fights series like Bowe vs Holyfield , Lloyd Marshall vs Ezzard Charles and tell me how they ended 4 d smaller older man .

Being bigger and younger is an advantage of Hearns over Duran both in their actual fight and vs common opponents , but yet Duran managed 2 outdo Hearns big time vs 2 opponents : Barkley & Hagler

I disagree and we both know how it ended , fair and square .
At least have excuses if u want 2 take away from it .

Benitez is not a good example and neither is Sims because all of Hearns' and Duran's fights against them ended by close decisions that really did not prove any superiority by themselves .
My ranking of d fab 4 is :
h2h :
1.1) Hagler
1.2) Leonard
3.1) Hearns
3.2) Duran
p4p :
1) Duran
2.1) Leonard
2.2) Hagler
4) Hearns

Whenever I put a dot it means it is closer than not and might b swappable .

I give u this much : p4p Hearns > Ali , Bob Foster , Aaron Pryor , Alexis Arguello and maybe even Oscar Delahoya and Shane Mosley . But lower than Duran . Hagler was a tiny middleweight BTW and could have always make 160 easily . I bet he could have made 154 also , but didn't bother . Hearns outgrew him in lean mass also as d time progressed (but Hagler was retired by then) .

 

Same did Dana Rosenblat and he didn't even need 2 dry his opponents .

Shane was dead against him and Delahoya was weakened from d weight loss , and past his prime anyway .

I was about 2 counter your argument here but then I came 2d conclusion that Duran never won d 135 lbs title .
Should have been a DQ or at least NC .
But even without his title @ 135 he did have a few worthy wins there , I still believe , and above 135 besides of Davey Moore (doesn't count - Moore was both injured & fouled ) his wins and even d way he lost 2 Sims , Hagler , Castro , Pazienza , Camacho *2 was impressing .
We do know what Camacho did 2 a (compared 2 Duran) younger and bigger Leonard , don't we ? :yep

This is only part of it , 1 should also not get beaten in a dominating way . And this is where Hearns fails more than Duran does .

Look at their mutual outcomes vs Hector Camacho , Duran's win over Barkley is on par with Leonard's over Hagler (even surpasses it) , but
not because Hagler is on par with Barkley .
Leonard's outcome vs Hagler was due 2 :
1) Leonard was younger and taller than Hagler and not a welterweight anymore . He was a lightmiddleweight at that point .
2) Big gloves
3) Big ring
4) Partially cowardly tactics
5) 12 rounds instead of 15

Duran lasted 15 vs a younger Hagler while being d smaller , shorter and older man himself as usual , with no ring&gloves demands (?) .
If Leonard fought that Hagler under those circumstances he would have had his azz knocked out better than he had it vs Camacho :yep .
Very seriously .

Even if d number there was 160 I would still disagree .
U think he could have knocked out Sosa , Thornton , Toney , Collins or McCallum ?
Y go so far ? that hand landed on Barkley (much less durable than d guys I mentioned) and it happened @ 160 , and was Barkley knocked out ?
I wouldn't call it that way .
I also wouldn't have called Duran a big guy , despite he was a much more massive guy than myself 4 example .

Fact is that Hearns even outgrew d 168 limit .
Duran never really outgrew 147 , he only ate himself out of it .

Hagler was a tiny middleweight who could very likely make 154 but didn't bother .

I think u should count his fights vs Leonard #1 , Barkley , Palomino , Marcel , Jorge Castro and possibly a few more and should also care about d way he "lost" in d fights he is listed as such .
This is where Hearns' failure grows bigger .

Excuses matter and that's y I don't count his results vs Buchanan & Moore .

Hagler was a tiny middleweight who could always make 160 and probably 154 and Hearns was no welterweight at all by d time he fought Hagler , d last time he was a WW was 4 years earlier and he lost because he was already 2 drained at d weight back then .
Hagler and Hearns were about as equal as 1 can get in terms of lean mass by d time they fought .

 

I'd still go with Duran, be sure of that! Duran would take him to hell and may even manage to turn him inside out, but this amended version of Mayweather would cause problems along the way.

While it is true that Ortiz and Mosley could not compare with Leonard, they were considered good, dangerous fighters at the time. And we have to be careful to remember that part of the reason Ortiz and Mosley are pretty much scorned now is because of what Mayweather did to them. Is it a reflection of their being overrated or of Mayweather's supreme level of skill...? No one really knows, but I wouldn't discount Floyd easily even though he is about as likable as a hemorrhoid.

 

Although Mayweather's win over SSM was impressive, let's not pretend he beat a prime SSM. In fact I'm not convinced he would beat a prime SSM, but it certainly show me something if he did.

 

I don't think Ortiz was even regarded as 'good' to be fair. Especially not when considering as an opponent for Mayweather. Boxrec enthusiasts of the future may think he was a good fighter going into it, but he has many alarming deficiencies in his makeup that have always marked him out as a vulnerable fighter.

Berto himself was crap IMO. 147 is poor at the moment apart from the top two guys, Ortiz was in the top 5 by default essentially.

Mosley, I give full credit to. A bit worrying that Shane managed to zap in right hands, and you have to remember the ferocity that Duran would follow up with, and how he'd punch out of Floyds attempts to tie up.

If Duran times Floyd in the second as he did Leonard and Shane did Floyd I struggle to see how Floyd would bounce back and adjust as quickly as he did Shane. Totally random hypothetical of course but you catch my drift, I'm sure.

 

I'd say if Mosley was ever being "scorned" it's because of the numerous underwhelming performances he has turned in since Losing his undefeated streak.For me, obviously in decline far before he even stepped in with Marg and Floyd.

 

This, Forrest changed his outlook for sure. Sporadically impressive after that, Margo' looked hideous in their fight physically and it was a good matchup for Shane.

But, as I say, despite his inactivity and short gas tank, he was the no.2 in the division at the time, and did have enough in him to make Floyd think more than most can make him.

As I say, if Shane could find room for his right hand, then so can Duran. He's also strong throughout, so if Floyd starts doing the kind of work he did from the 3rd round onwards I don't think there's any guarantee he holds his own there, he'll have Durans jab to combat with, and Duran will feint him into finding space for his right hand again.

I don't see Floyd doing well in this matchup at all.

 

Oh no doubt

To be honest i lost interest in Mayweatheras as someone who looked like an elite once he moved past 135.

 

what do you mean by elite? As in one of the greats or one of the top fighters in the world?

 

:huh

 

yeah should have clarified i meant in an all-time sense.as someone who looked like he could hold his own and make for intriguing fights with anyone at or near his weight throughout history.

As far as being one of the topcurrent fighters in the world, obviously Floyd has retained that even up to 147\154.

Duran imo retained that eliteness up to 147 and probably as a modern 154lber(buit not if you just consider everyone who ever weighed and fought prime circa 154)but not at middle.

 

oh ok, yeah