Montreal Duran vs. pre-Hearns Cuevas

...not to mention the fact that they departed after that, with the exception of Arcel for one fight in 82. 'Duran and the two old men' was something other than what we saw afterwards.

 

That´s something different. Roy was clearly past it. But like you said, Duran was a passion fighter. Can we just assume he would be passionate about fighting someone? Wouldn´t it be as likely that he is desinterested like against Laing?

 

Disinterested is more or less synonymous with what I'm saying. Duran often didn't care, but for his first 70 fights his youth and natural ability hid it. As he aged, it began to show -and don't forget Brown was gone by the end of 1980 and he was one of the very few men who could 'control' him if you will.

And before those in Duran-denial jump all over this, let's keep in mind that Duran's inconsistency didn't begin until he had about twice the fights that many of their dubious heroes have.

 

All true. I´m a fan of this man and this is solyly about the argument. Wouldn´t it be fairer to use both Durans - the passionate and desinterested one - for fantasy matchups post 1980? Because both is about as likely to happen.

 

I'd be inclined to use an asterisk -hypotheticals involving Duran against a second-rater or even a dark horse could very well go against him.

 

against Cuevas, Duran would probably have the edge and stop him in about 8 or 9. Great fight.

 

haha my mistake, sorry

 

Well I whole heartedly see your point. If you say 'Duran' then you get a load of ****ing degenerates coming out of the wood work talking about him being inconsistent, so I see why you coined the term 'Montreal Duran', it was probably necessary at the time. But I stick by my convictions in regards to actually being objective. Roberto Duran was very consistent at 147, he beat everyone he fought at the weight and had a couple of great performances, one of which was one of the greatest of all time. He only lost once and that was to likely the best fighter he ever fought, whom he beat. 'welterweight Duran' is more than sufficient. There's no need to say 'the Jones that fought Virgil Hill', just say '175 pounds Jones' and anyone worth half a post will know that you're not talking about the Jones that was beaten by Hopkins in the rematch.

'welterweight Duran' it is for me. You'll never catch me saying 'montreal duran', where will it end? This could get very silly.

'Hatton of the Tszyu fight'

'Honeyghan of the Curry fight'

'Burley of the Moore fight'

you see what I mean? As I say, I whoel heartedly share your viewpoint on the idiots who comment on Duran on this board, and I actually like the reason you coined the term 'Montreal Duran', but to be objective I'm just not a fan of it.

Great post though Stoney, written and structured perfectly as always.

 

probably have the edge?

 

I'll confess it was MMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE that coined "Montreal Duran" in reference to his apogee & relation too his lack lustra performances in his 30's i.e "Laing/Batten" which plenty of zero knowlage ****heads on here who always hold up as their torch of boxing reality for making comparrisons of Duran in fictional match-ups. As far as i'am concerned the term "Montreal Duran" or the "Duran of Montreal" is apt in using that fight as the yardstick & This example is out of context to describe any othe fighter & fails, Durans multi complexities & inconsistencies deem we need a actual proven high point for reference juxtaposed with the "Duran of the Hagler" fight is another handle i always use that is apt when showcasing Durans brilliance of tactical nous & defensive mastery.

These 2 fights showcase the compleate boxing brilliance of the man in offence/defence & tactical acumen ammased over 71 fights starting with Leonard & we all must agree that Leonard & Hagler were regarded without doubt the Superbeasts of there divisions & DURAN the GREAT beat the 1st one in some style & totally outfoxed & confused the 2nd one against all odd's in both. So IMO it's a correct reference too highlighting the Best of Duran when he faced the best at Welter & Middle & the above names you've thrown out had there night but Duran had many great nights above & beyond the call of duty

Duran's carreer in his 30's & beyond is like watching a seismograph measuring earthquakes & treamors not sure which would come first but you knew one was on the way:bbb

"Montreal Duran" "Montreal Duran" "Montreal Duran"
"Montreal Duran" "Montreal Duran" "Montreal Duran"

Now i'am waiting for some wanker to come on here & answer with "NO-MAS":twisted:

Pachillies will no doubt oblidge in his desperate quest for acknowlegment from amounst his peers & highlight once again his total & absolute insignificance here on classic:yep

 

It's all good. I would agree with the risks involved but guys like Burley and Hatton strike me as fairly consistent in what they brought, far more than 80s Duran anyway. Vicious versions of Liston, Dempsey, and Duran need a bit of singling out -but then again you're right, it may be because I feel the need to avoid having to deal with the inevitable agendas or confusion.

 

In fact, prior to Montreal, there was a story I read about this relationship. They were eating in a restaurant there, steak and baked potatoes for the entree. Duran reached out his knife for a pat of butter for his potato, Brown quietly said, "No," and Duran immediately put it back. An earlier argument they had was described, and Brown's response was to say he was quitting. Duran burst into tears, and emotionally wrapped his arms around Freddie, conceding the argument and begging him to stay. Again, this story was published before Montreal, and therefore well before Brown actually did quit for good. As I recall, the disagreement was a trivial matter concerning something Duran wanted to eat which Brown wouldn't give his consent to. Freddie got his way because Duran knew he was deadly serious when he threatened to quit for good, not bluffing at all, something Brown proved to the whole world after New Orleans.

I've pointed out more than once before that by the time Ross was Duran's age for Montreal, Barney was already retired.

 

yeah, some of the posters who have an agenda against Duran are complete psychos/idiots

 

:rofl

there's nothing wrong with highlighting and praising a fighters best performances. The only gripe I had was with the term being used for fantasy fights etc.

:good

 

The night of the Montreal win saw aliens, who heard that Duran was the bestest westest fighter in the history of the universe, abduct Roberto. They replaced him with a shot overweight Ricky Hatton that they had brought from the future, they would periodically return the real Duran when facing brawling fighters with no defense only to replace him with the shot tubby Hatton when fighting someone who would use lateral movement, counter punching and defense. True Story