"Montreal" Roberto Duran vs. "New Orleans" Sugar Ray Leonard

I would say that the only time -ever- in his career that Duran could have beaten Leonard was in 79-80. He had to be at his very best to deal with Leonard's great advantages and stylistic difficulties... but he could... and he proved it in the bout that meant the most.

I will forever hold a grudge against Duran for not being at his best in New Orleans and for ripping off the whole world in 1989. Leonard, frankly deserved better. Both times. He was a worthy foe to say the least!

 

I have a feeling Leonard knew both times what kind of shape Duran would be in. Just call it a hunch.

 

1980 you mean?. Or did you also add in 1990 for the third match. It was 1989.

 

One thing i am definitely not going to take on board is Duran not being at his Barkley best in the third Leonard match. He'd waited a lifetime for this final chance at revenge. Look at Hearns efforts in his Leonard rematch, he was motivated as much as any man could be.

You say Duran was wary of Leonards power but i can't agree here either. He'd taken some huge shots most willingly off Barkley and SRL, tho solid at 160, is not the puncher Barkley is there.

I look at Durans susceptibility to excellent lateral movement and good handspeed at higher weights myself. Allies can be found in Leonard II, Benitez, Laing, Hearns, Sims and Leonard III. He cannot have been unmotivated for all of those bouts, for staters Benitez. One year after his disgrace in New Orleons he had his chance at instant redemption vs one of the most heralded fighters in the world - but was convincingly routed. If he couldn't be motivated for a fight such as this under these circumstances then i worry for him.

P.S. I'd never really looked at the official scoring, but just noticed Benitez only won by 1, 4 and 3 points. Surprising in a bout at least one respected publication scored to Benitez by 13 rounds to 2.

 

One of my favourite little voices in Pink Floyd the Wall - "Surprise, surprise, surprise!".

Chin doesn't come into this one, because neither Ray nor Duran are getting stopped.

It's also amusing that you rate Durans heart higher than Leonards when Ray actually made him quit cold! By contrast Ray took his aged lumps vs your little idol Terry Norris and tried his damnest till the very end.

Bottom line - this fight between the two best versions demands to be rated a pick'em fight. Good cases can be made each way.

But you and i both know the age old saying of the 80's,

"Where there's a Sugar Ray, then there's just got to be a way!"

Cheers

:good

 

Duran also had major problems with Edwin Viruet in their 1975 non-title bout in New York. I watched this fight for the first time last week. Duran won, but wasn't exactly convincing throughout the bout. Viruet's movement bothered Duran, as did his jab. Duran launched attacks and had success when Viruet was against the ropes. But he was made to look a fool at times. Viruet mocked Duran on a number of occassions when he did the Ali shuffle. The crowd booed the decision. Duran won the fight, but never dominated Viruet like he did with other lightweight victims.

 

Yes, lateral movement is the way to fight Duran, even at 135. He's damn near impossible to beat in other ways. At 135 he would obviously have more answers than at 147 and particularly above. Few fighters in history could stand with Duran and expect to have a decent chance of winning.

 

That's the line from Gomer Pyle, USMC. John what you don't understand is that while Duran may not stop Leonard, it would make him much more respectful of Duran because Leonard doesn't like to get hit and so that would cause him to fight tentatively. And we all know that you can't win a fight giving the other guy too much respect.

 

I'd take Leonard by a close, but clear decision. If he used lateral movement, kept a distance, and didn't allow himself to get drawn into a brawl on the inside, than he could have offset Duran and gotten the better of him over 12 or 15.

 

Last time i looked Leonard gave Duran loads of respect, exchange wise, in their second fight. And their third. Oh, and Hagler too. Seemed to work well. The Sweet Science personified

:yep

 

I stand by my suspicion. That's all it is. I was reading his body language in II and III and I think that it was the speed of Leonard's shots that worried him -that and the realization that he just wasn't ready. Barkley hit much harder than Ray, but Duran could see the shots. Barkley wound up alot and was just slower. Duran is a master and was predicting what Barkley was gonna throw. Same with Hagler. Same with Leonard in Montreal... he emerged from those bouts with nary a scratch. But speed and power -like Hearns had and Leonard though not as much, these were problems when he wasn't at his best.

As to the rest of your argument... Duran wasn't the same after Montreal, I'm sure you'd agree. I didn't see that fire againt Benitez. He didn't care against Laing and he sure as hell wasn't caring too much about fighting Marvin's little brother.

Hearns had more character. He took full advantage in the Leonard rematch. Duran didn't against Leonard, against Benitez, against Simms, against Hearns... and he came in fat and sloppy against the dangerous Castro. Hell, he almost KOd Paz at what 44? And in the rematch he comes in 3 pounds heavier! Meanwhile, he gets literally ripped at 157 for Camacho.

 

You're talking two different fights. I'm talking about the same fight when he's already in trouble. Leonard cant get Roberto in trouble but Duran got Leonard hurt three times in the same fight.

 

I would pick a motivated, in-shaped Duran like the Duran from Montreal to beat Leonard anytime. Duran claimed that Leonard was just showboating and acting like a clown in the second fight. I believe Duran commented that "boxing is a serious sport and Leonard was sticking his face out and acting like a clown." Of course people rooting for Leonard would accuse of Duran of being a bully. Still, Leonard's showboating against the great Roberto Duran was reprehensible. It was more egregious than Duran opting out of the fight IMO.

Duran would have won again. It was smart of Leonard to push for the fight so soon. If it had been later Duran would have gotten in better shape and won again.

 

Millions would disagree.

 

What I would say about Leonard's performance in New Orleans. Safety first. Now, I mean very safety first. I have watched the fight a few times. Leonard's jab was hardly flowing at long range, his power punches were few and far between, and he wasn't winning his rounds easily. Leonard made it look that way as his punch out-put was low.

IMO, the main attribute Leonard had in his locker was his swift movement around the ring. Thats what beat Duran more than anything else. Make him miss, make him pay.

But Leonard could have made Duran pay more, and he should have. If you actually watch the fight, the only authoriative power punch Leonard connects with over the first 6 rounds, a lead right hand during the second round. The occassional jab lands, and he flurries off the ropes with both hands, then spins away.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Leonard's victory. He had the movement, speed, and the agility. I just feel he could have opened up on regular basis.